Author Topic: Invert Sugar  (Read 1368 times)

Offline Kevin

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Re: Invert Sugar
« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2021, 02:47:31 PM »
Any opinions on what the most useful invert sugar is to make and have around for multiple recipes? I haven’t paid attention to how often various invert varieties appear in recipes.

For me it is invert #3. It will probably depend on what recipes you make the most. Invert #2 is called for only occasionally. Recipes (that catch my interest) requiring #1 are rare and I have never found a need for #4.
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Offline Kevin

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Re: Invert Sugar
« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2021, 02:58:03 PM »
During this whole conversation I completely forgot that invert sugar is available in the US. For the longest time brewers on this side of the Atlantic had to make our own as discussed but fairly recently a company called Becker's began producing invert #1 #2 and #3. Right now it is only sold at Adventures in Homebrewing but it is out there. The reason I forgot about it is that it is damned expensive imho. But for some it may be worth it to not have to stand over the stove for 2.5+ hours.

https://www.homebrewing.org/Beckers-Inverted-Brewing-Sugars-Invert-3--3-lbs_p_10336.html
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Invert Sugar
« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2021, 03:11:06 PM »
During this whole conversation I completely forgot that invert sugar is available in the US. For the longest time brewers on this side of the Atlantic had to make our own as discussed but fairly recently a company called Becker's began producing invert #1 #2 and #3. Right now it is only sold at Adventures in Homebrewing but it is out there. The reason I forgot about it is that it is damned expensive imho. But for some it may be worth it to not have to stand over the stove for 2.5+ hours.

https://www.homebrewing.org/Beckers-Inverted-Brewing-Sugars-Invert-3--3-lbs_p_10336.html

Matt Becker is a friend from my Homebrew Club and I enjoy his beers and Brewery in Brighton MI.

Pricing is set by Adventures, same as the Belgian Candi Sugars. You now can buy it by the pound vs 3 lbs.
Jeff Rankert
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Invert Sugar
« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2021, 03:14:23 PM »
Any opinions on what the most useful invert sugar is to make and have around for multiple recipes? I haven’t paid attention to how often various invert varieties appear in recipes.

I would agree #3 for most British styles.. In Ron Pattinson's book of Homebrew recipes one Bitter recipe is pointed out as being unusual for using #3. Most use #1 for a Bitter.

Jeff Rankert
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Offline Megary

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Re: Invert Sugar
« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2021, 03:22:27 PM »
For anyone with a spare 20 minutes, this has to be the best, funniest, most "real" video about making #1 (golden syrup). 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBcm__610h4

Offline erockrph

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Re: Invert Sugar
« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2021, 03:40:57 PM »
I've used a stove top pressure canner (a small 12 quart one) to help make invert sugar and regulate the temperature.

I start the sugar, water, and acid on a normal pot on the stove to get up the syrup to 240 degrees. I then transferred the invert syrup into pint mason jars (which has ended up being about a pound a piece), add those to the canner, and let the pressure canner come up to pressure and ~250 degrees.  It's easy to keep it there for anywhere from 20 minutes to a couple of hours depending on which grade I'm making. It worked pretty well and gives me nicely portioned amounts in sealed containers. I may make a bunch of cup jars next time for extra flexibility.

I've also made small batches of invert #1 this way when I've also needed to can some wort for yeast starters. Increase the pressure time to whatever you need and you get some sterilized wort and lighter invert sugar at the same time. 

Mike
OK, this has me sold. Taking over the kitchen for brewing beer every few weeks is a tough enough sell to the wife as it is. If I can throw this in the Instant Pot for a few hours, then I might be able to get away with this :)
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Offline tommymorris

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Re: Invert Sugar
« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2021, 03:46:16 PM »
For anyone with a spare 20 minutes, this has to be the best, funniest, most "real" video about making #1 (golden syrup). 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBcm__610h4
My side was hurting from laughing watching that! That is not what I experienced.

Offline Megary

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Re: Invert Sugar
« Reply #37 on: March 06, 2021, 04:17:21 PM »
For anyone with a spare 20 minutes, this has to be the best, funniest, most "real" video about making #1 (golden syrup). 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBcm__610h4
My side was hurting from laughing watching that! That is not what I experienced.

 :)  Not my experiences either, but it was watching this that convinced me even I could make #1!

Offline BrewBama

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Re: Invert Sugar
« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2021, 08:59:56 PM »
For anyone with a spare 20 minutes, this has to be the best, funniest, most "real" video about making #1 (golden syrup). 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBcm__610h4
My side was hurting from laughing watching that! That is not what I experienced.

 :)  Not my experiences either, but it was watching this that convinced me even I could make #1!
Just watched this. This is EXACTLY the reason I haven’t tried this. This is how it would go for me.

The local Publix had Golden Syrup for a while but it must not have sold very well because they don’t stock it anymore.


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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Invert Sugar
« Reply #39 on: March 10, 2021, 10:01:02 PM »
For anyone with a spare 20 minutes, this has to be the best, funniest, most "real" video about making #1 (golden syrup). 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBcm__610h4
My side was hurting from laughing watching that! That is not what I experienced.

 :)  Not my experiences either, but it was watching this that convinced me even I could make #1!
Just watched this. This is EXACTLY the reason I haven’t tried this. This is how it would go for me.

The local Publix had Golden Syrup for a while but it must not have sold very well because they don’t stock it anymore.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Some areas around here have a fair amount of British expats here with the Auto industry, so i see Golden Syrup if i go to stores in those towns.

Going to make my own for a Bitter.
Jeff Rankert
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Offline Kevin

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Re: Invert Sugar
« Reply #40 on: March 10, 2021, 10:09:25 PM »
Keep in mind that golden syrup and invert are not entirely the same thing. Commercial brewers in England would almost never use golden syrup. Golden syrup has become a hack for homebrewers who cannot get proper invert sugars. The flavor profiles are very different. @Northern_Brewer has written often about the differences at homebrewtalk .com.
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Offline Fire Rooster

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Re: Invert Sugar
« Reply #41 on: March 11, 2021, 02:47:11 PM »
   First some background to understand why this process was chosen.
After retiring many tests were done with cooking. Great meals were cooked,
along with sudden trips to fast-food take-out.  A hummingbird feeder is maintained
for the entire summer, requires mixing sugar & water many times.  Amounts and
processes used for golden/invert syrup found online, are all over the map.

Ingredients & Amounts chosen, approximately ½ pound of Golden Syrup

1 cup Raw Cane Sugar, Organic Florida Crystals
1 cup Distilled Water
7.5 ml (1 1/2 teaspoons) Fresh Squeezed lemon juice

Process:
1. Mixed all ingredients in a small sauce pan.  Every few minutes mixed again, continued until sugar
    was totally dissolved and not cloudy.  Granules sticking to the bottom were scraped with a spatula,
    then stirred.  Didn't continue until no traces of sugar granules were observed.
2.  Placed pan on smallest gas burner, and on lowest setting.
3.  Temperature variance found online is 236 f – 310 f.  A temperature of 250 f was selected,
      and obtained after 2.5 hours. No stirring for entire 2.5 hours, taken off burner when temp hit 250 f.
4.  Glass jar used to store golden syrup was filled a couple of times with very hot water, then
     dumped.  Continued until glass jar was hot.
5. Poured golden syrup into empty hot jar, after totally cooled put on lid.

Chose sugar to water ratio 1-1.  Ratio 2-1 sugar to water, resulted in a very thick hardened syrup.
Desire syrup that pours easily.  Purest cane sugar available was chosen to avoid possible reactions
that I may be unaware of.  Used distilled water to avoid reactions with minerals, and
or chemicals.  Fresh lemon juice was used to avoid possible preservatives/additives and to ensure it’s fresh.

Pic below (I hope)
https://ubuqoa.bl.files.1drv.com/y4mCh5wKiHGD2S4Bxk3f_KERCXjzKA_HEAATaKo8JpNGkHIdo8cksPf0KXFdWQBTrMdc4neY8JkhFCVElICd7TkZ83TEYnRJyUPqnnYENRuYc6yupQWoUl-ehGR818WjFmHdiCg1EtG9ZvbKDOfX5V-mise5gJ9AWCaDSlHEzkZxOEB0G6F1TzfT3BqTFDBjkdMnCd-IF8fgv-9fKjw_PSZ1A/IMG_0240.jpg?psid=1



Consistency is thicker than maple syrup, but thinner than honey.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2021, 09:49:16 AM by Fire Rooster »

Offline Fire Rooster

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Re: Invert Sugar
« Reply #42 on: March 12, 2021, 10:03:51 AM »
At what moment would one add golden/invert sugar in the brewing process ?

Thanks
« Last Edit: March 12, 2021, 10:06:50 AM by Fire Rooster »

Offline roger

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Re: Invert Sugar
« Reply #43 on: March 12, 2021, 01:05:26 PM »
I add it to the boil, just long enough to kill any nasty hitchhikers, about 15 minutes.
Roger

Offline Fire Rooster

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Re: Invert Sugar
« Reply #44 on: March 12, 2021, 01:17:29 PM »
I add it to the boil, just long enough to kill any nasty hitchhikers, about 15 minutes.

That's what I was thinking. Was planning last 10 minutes.
As you said kill stuff, and gives time to blend with wort.
Never used golden syrup (I like the name over invert)
before, going to be tossed in next batch in a few days.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2021, 01:22:44 PM by Fire Rooster »