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Author Topic: Lallemand Diamond Lager versus Fermentis W-34/70  (Read 25242 times)

Offline Saccharomyces

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Lallemand Diamond Lager versus Fermentis W-34/70
« on: March 14, 2021, 04:28:03 pm »
The Bohemian-style Pilsner that I fermented with W-34/70 eventually smoothed out to be enjoyable, but I do not see myself using Fermentis W-34/70 again.  It is just not clean enough from an off-taste point of view for me.  I am curious if anyone who has used Fermentis W-34/70 has used Lallemand Diamond lager as well.  After using S-04, US-05, and W-34/70, I can honestly say that I am not a fan of Fermentis. 

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager versus Fermentis W-34/70
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2021, 05:12:28 pm »
I'm not sure if I pick up less flavor from Diamond but it clears better the few times I've used it.
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Offline Silver_Is_Money

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Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager versus Fermentis W-34/70
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2021, 04:14:31 am »
When I carried on an email conversation with Fermentis, they strongly hinted (I.E., they were reluctant to openly and directly say, and never did so, leaving me to assemble the various of hint pieces and 'infer') that S-23 is the Urquell strain.  Some time after that, yeast genetic researcher Kristoffer Krogerus  (internet name, Suregork) just about nailed this inference, as he now places WY2001 and S-23 as sisters within his genetic comparison chart.

http://beer.suregork.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Brewing_yeast_tree_Oct_2019.pdf
« Last Edit: March 15, 2021, 04:18:07 am by Silver_Is_Money »

Offline lupulus

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Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager versus Fermentis W-34/70
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2021, 05:17:34 am »
Whereas other Fermentis strains, even if clones of famous brewery strains, are maintained by Fermentis.
W34/70 is the Weihenstephan strain and is QCed regularly to match the Weihenstephan strain.
W34/70 is the most used lager strain in the world.
It's the most common strain used in the scientific literature.
Schönram is one of the breweries using it.

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Offline PORTERHAUS

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Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager versus Fermentis W-34/70
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2021, 05:50:06 am »
The Bohemian-style Pilsner that I fermented with W-34/70 eventually smoothed out to be enjoyable, but I do not see myself using Fermentis W-34/70 again.  It is just not clean enough from an off-taste point of view for me.  I am curious if anyone who has used Fermentis W-34/70 has used Lallemand Diamond lager as well.  After using S-04, US-05, and W-34/70, I can honestly say that I am not a fan of Fermentis.

I have been trying 34/70 at different temperatures. I would imagine the standard thinking is to ferment it cool at normal lager temps. I hear most people using it 48-50*...I feel 34/70 gets better a little warmer than that...mid to higher 50's. Many even use it near or at Ale temps, haven't done that myself but there are claims it creates a lager like beer just the same. 34/70 is definitely seems less temperature dependent. 34/70 may be more suited for American or Adjunct Style Lagers, Lighter Lagers, Hybrid Beers (Cali Common, etc). 

Diamond Lager may just be a superior dry lager yeast. I find it clean, neutral and it clears well. It seems to have a fuller, rounder character to it...very fitting for bigger German Style Lagers. I emailed Lallemand about Diamond Lager and they indicated it was the style strain as Weihenstephan/Bohemian Lager. I find 34/70 and Diamond a little different. I think Diamond Lager is a more like Fermentis S-189 with that fuller, rounder character. Have you ever tried S-189?
« Last Edit: March 15, 2021, 05:56:41 am by PORTERHAUS »

Offline Descardeci

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Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager versus Fermentis W-34/70
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2021, 09:24:03 am »
The Bohemian-style Pilsner that I fermented with W-34/70 eventually smoothed out to be enjoyable, but I do not see myself using Fermentis W-34/70 again.  It is just not clean enough from an off-taste point of view for me.  I am curious if anyone who has used Fermentis W-34/70 has used Lallemand Diamond lager as well.  After using S-04, US-05, and W-34/70, I can honestly say that I am not a fan of Fermentis.

After saw you post talking about the dry yeast for lagers, the W-34/70, I give up trying use dry yeast for lagers, going with liquid now, more work but if you can believe cheaper than W34/70 or any other dry yeast in my country, I wouldn't use dry yeast if I can get a good liqudi yeast, with a few exception like some of the mangrove yeasts

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Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager versus Fermentis W-34/70
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2021, 10:09:35 am »
The Bohemian-style Pilsner that I fermented with W-34/70 eventually smoothed out to be enjoyable, but I do not see myself using Fermentis W-34/70 again.  It is just not clean enough from an off-taste point of view for me.  I am curious if anyone who has used Fermentis W-34/70 has used Lallemand Diamond lager as well.  After using S-04, US-05, and W-34/70, I can honestly say that I am not a fan of Fermentis.

After saw you post talking about the dry yeast for lagers, the W-34/70, I give up trying use dry yeast for lagers, going with liquid now, more work but if you can believe cheaper than W34/70 or any other dry yeast in my country, I wouldn't use dry yeast if I can get a good liqudi yeast, with a few exception like some of the mangrove yeasts

I have had nothing but bad luck with Mangrove Jack, but I've only tried a couple.  But it doesn't make me want to try it again when there are so many great choices.
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Offline MDL

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Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager versus Fermentis W-34/70
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2021, 10:22:45 am »
I read somewhere that Diamond lager is Munich 308. Not 34/70.

Offline Descardeci

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Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager versus Fermentis W-34/70
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2021, 10:42:11 am »
The Bohemian-style Pilsner that I fermented with W-34/70 eventually smoothed out to be enjoyable, but I do not see myself using Fermentis W-34/70 again.  It is just not clean enough from an off-taste point of view for me.  I am curious if anyone who has used Fermentis W-34/70 has used Lallemand Diamond lager as well.  After using S-04, US-05, and W-34/70, I can honestly say that I am not a fan of Fermentis.

After saw you post talking about the dry yeast for lagers, the W-34/70, I give up trying use dry yeast for lagers, going with liquid now, more work but if you can believe cheaper than W34/70 or any other dry yeast in my country, I wouldn't use dry yeast if I can get a good liqudi yeast, with a few exception like some of the mangrove yeasts

I have had nothing but bad luck with Mangrove Jack, but I've only tried a couple.  But it doesn't make me want to try it again when there are so many great choices.

That is the opposite of me with mangrove jack, I love those yeast great choice, for me the 2 best weissbier dry yeast is from mangrove and lallemand, those for english yeast they have a great choice, the bad thing is haverst slurry, some ppl say some of they yeast are 2 strains

Offline neuse

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Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager versus Fermentis W-34/70
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2021, 11:11:51 am »
The Bohemian-style Pilsner that I fermented with W-34/70 eventually smoothed out to be enjoyable, but I do not see myself using Fermentis W-34/70 again.  It is just not clean enough from an off-taste point of view for me.  I am curious if anyone who has used Fermentis W-34/70 has used Lallemand Diamond lager as well.  After using S-04, US-05, and W-34/70, I can honestly say that I am not a fan of Fermentis.

After saw you post talking about the dry yeast for lagers, the W-34/70, I give up trying use dry yeast for lagers, going with liquid now, more work but if you can believe cheaper than W34/70 or any other dry yeast in my country, I wouldn't use dry yeast if I can get a good liqudi yeast, with a few exception like some of the mangrove yeasts

I have had nothing but bad luck with Mangrove Jack, but I've only tried a couple.  But it doesn't make me want to try it again when there are so many great choices.
Out of 184 batches of beer, I've had three very slow fermentations, ranging from 29 days to 73 days to finish. All of these problem fermentations were with Mangrove Jack's yeast. I no longer use it.

Offline denny

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Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager versus Fermentis W-34/70
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2021, 11:29:53 am »
I read somewhere that Diamond lager is Munich 308. Not 34/70.

Not according to the microbiologist I spoke with at Lallemand.
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Offline PORTERHAUS

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Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager versus Fermentis W-34/70
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2021, 12:38:35 pm »
I read somewhere that Diamond lager is Munich 308. Not 34/70.

Not according to the microbiologist I spoke with at Lallemand.

What did they indicate (or not) that it might be?

Offline denny

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Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager versus Fermentis W-34/70
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2021, 12:58:41 pm »
I read somewhere that Diamond lager is Munich 308. Not 34/70.

Not according to the microbiologist I spoke with at Lallemand.

What did they indicate (or not) that it might be?

Strong indication that it's Weinstephan (sp)/2124/34/70
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Offline tommymorris

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Lallemand Diamond Lager versus Fermentis W-34/70
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2021, 03:16:13 pm »
But, frankly you should just try Diamond Lager yeast if it interests you because all of these yeasts are subtlety different even when they have the same lineage.

A yeast’s behavior (flavor, etc) is the most important thing. Lineage only tells you so much.

Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager versus Fermentis W-34/70
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2021, 03:27:35 pm »
Whereas other Fermentis strains, even if clones of famous brewery strains, are maintained by Fermentis.
W34/70 is the Weihenstephan strain and is QCed regularly to match the Weihenstephan strain.
W34/70 is the most used lager strain in the world.
It's the most common strain used in the scientific literature.
Schönram is one of the breweries using it.

Sent from my SM-G981U1 using Tapatalk

And...it is our house yeast for lagers. The W-34/70 is an awesome yeast! The Vienna Lager that I'm drinking as I type (is drinking & typing legal?) this was fermented with 34/70. Very clean, and typical of a Euro-Lager type beer.

The 34/70 will work at a wide range of temps. I have had it still fermenting down into the mid 30's.

It has worked for us for over a year, using multiple generations. There is a reason why it's the most widely used yeast worldwide. If it's good enough for the pro-brewers, it's good enough for us.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2021, 03:30:29 pm by TXFlyGuy »
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