[denny]

The one time I tried Diamond Lager Yeast it ended up a complete diacetyl bomb. Granted, I only pitched one pack into 1.056 wort which would be under-pitching. Nothing I did could salvage this beer and I dumped it. Maybe I should give it another try and pitch more yeast. W-34/70 has worked fine for me the times that I have tried it, but like others have noted it took a long time to clear.

I don't know if you can blame the yeast when so many have had good experiences withit.

[dannyjed]

The one time I tried Diamond Lager Yeast it ended up a complete diacetyl bomb. Granted, I only pitched one pack into 1.056 wort which would be under-pitching. Nothing I did could salvage this beer and I dumped it. Maybe I should give it another try and pitch more yeast. W-34/70 has worked fine for me the times that I have tried it, but like others have noted it took a long time to clear.

I don't know if you can blame the yeast when so many have had good experiences withit.

Not really blaming the yeast. Like I stated, I only used it once and I probably didn’t pitch enough with one packet. I had higher than expected efficiency and an OG of 1.056. I might try it again to see if I get better results.


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[denny]

The one time I tried Diamond Lager Yeast it ended up a complete diacetyl bomb. Granted, I only pitched one pack into 1.056 wort which would be under-pitching. Nothing I did could salvage this beer and I dumped it. Maybe I should give it another try and pitch more yeast. W-34/70 has worked fine for me the times that I have tried it, but like others have noted it took a long time to clear.

I don't know if you can blame the yeast when so many have had good experiences withit.

Not really blaming the yeast. Like I stated, I only used it once and I probably didn’t pitch enough with one packet. I had higher than expected efficiency and an OG of 1.056. I might try it again to see if I get better results.


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FWIW, I always pitch one pack into lagers of that gravity

[dannyjed]

The one time I tried Diamond Lager Yeast it ended up a complete diacetyl bomb. Granted, I only pitched one pack into 1.056 wort which would be under-pitching. Nothing I did could salvage this beer and I dumped it. Maybe I should give it another try and pitch more yeast. W-34/70 has worked fine for me the times that I have tried it, but like others have noted it took a long time to clear.

I don't know if you can blame the yeast when so many have had good experiences withit.

Not really blaming the yeast. Like I stated, I only used it once and I probably didn’t pitch enough with one packet. I had higher than expected efficiency and an OG of 1.056. I might try it again to see if I get better results.


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FWIW, I always pitch one pack into lagers of that gravity

Well in that case, I will blame it on the yeast and I shan’t use it again.


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[Saccharomyces]

I don't know if you can blame the yeast when so many have had good experiences withit.

Seriously? A lot of brewers are blind to yeast induced off-flavors.  That does not make them bad brewers.  It makes them unaware brewers. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

[MDL]

My take away from all this is that if I want to experience the cleanest lager fermentation I need to culture my own. Even wyeast/white labs may be mutated pitches. Dry yeast most definitely is mutated?

Couple this with all the LODO information and I hope I have time someday to brew a good beer...for once.

Cheers.....to a hobby I thought I enjoyed;)

[dannyjed]

I was trying to be funny with my last comment and I guess it really wasn’t. My point is that if I use something for the first time and it turns out bad enough to dump it, then I’m reluctant to use it again. Who knows why this batch had an awful diacetyl off flavor? Too many variables to pin it down to the cause. I’m not hypersensitive to it, but this batch was noticeably “butter” and not worth keeping around.


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[Bel Air Brewing]

I don't know if you can blame the yeast when so many have had good experiences withit.

Seriously? A lot of brewers are blind to yeast induced off-flavors.  That does not make them bad brewers.  It makes them unaware brewers. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

When you live with the lame, you limp.

[Bel Air Brewing]

My take away from all this is that if I want to experience the cleanest lager fermentation I need to culture my own. Even wyeast/white labs may be mutated pitches. Dry yeast most definitely is mutated?

Couple this with all the LODO information and I hope I have time someday to brew a good beer...for once.

Cheers.....to a hobby I thought I enjoyed;)

Now that we have learned that basically all yeast is defective, we might as well throw in the towel.

[denny]

My take away from all this is that if I want to experience the cleanest lager fermentation I need to culture my own. Even wyeast/white labs may be mutated pitches. Dry yeast most definitely is mutated?

Couple this with all the LODO information and I hope I have time someday to brew a good beer...for once.

Cheers.....to a hobby I thought I enjoyed;)

I don't see that as the takeaway at all.

[denny]

I don't know if you can blame the yeast when so many have had good experiences withit.

Seriously? A lot of brewers are blind to yeast induced off-flavors.  That does not make them bad brewers.  It makes them unaware brewers. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

Seriously?  I struggled with how to answer this because I don't want to insult you.  I'll just say that its not as many as you might think, and certainly not all.  With that comment, you diss those who disagree with you.

[MDL]

I wasn’t being serious. Hence the winky face;)

[PORTERHAUS]

The take away I get is the same as it always has been for me...Brewing can be as simple or as complex as you want it to be or make it out to be. People enjoy brewing for different reasons and put into it and take out of it different aspects of it all.

I compare it to fishing. One man is content fishing from the shore with a simple rod and basic gear while another guy is out on his $50k bass boat with all the bells and whistles and all the different rods and tackle you can dream of. In the end, they are both doing the same thing. Who's going to catch more fish, who's going to catch the biggest fish, who is enjoying it more...doesn't it depend on the fisherman? But chances are even on a bad day fishing, that guy on the shore had a great day. The guy on the boat is probably thinking what a waste of time if he didn't achieve all he set out to do...maybe questioning or contemplating all the different factors at play and how to improve it all.

I like to fall somewhere in the middle, I set out to make the best beer I can within the means that I have and can control...there is still a craft aspect of it to apply. Fancy, shinny equipment doesn't make better beer if you don't know how to fish the waters.

[erockrph]

If a tree falls in the forest but no one is there to taste it, does it leave any off flavors?

In my younger days I could tell a Dominican,  Honduran, Nicaraguan, or Cuban cigar apart by taste. I smoked several cigars a week, and wrote down detailed tasting notes on each one. I had the terroir from each region dialed in on my palate and could pick it out reliably. Or maybe not, and maybe the label on the cigar set my expectations. Or maybe it was some combination of the two.

At the time I would have asserted that I had a supremely trained palate. And to be honest, I did spend years training and maintaining a mental flavor dictionary from a young age. But I have gotten a bit more humble as I've gotten older. I still can pick out familiar flavors pretty easily, but I have no doubts that confirmation bias plays a major role in tasting. It's funny that I often put a beer on tap that I think is kind of "meh" at first, but after a few weeks I come back to it and end up draining that keg before the others I have on tap. When I first keg a beer it certainly gets a bit more critical analysis, but after time passes it just gets consumed out of enjoyment. Sometimes you taste the process and recipe, but sometimes you just taste the beer. The latter is almost always better than the former.

So tl;dr one man's yeast off flavor is another's tasty beer. And sometimes it can be the same man.

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[Village Taphouse]

I was trying to be funny with my last comment and I guess it really wasn’t. My point is that if I use something for the first time and it turns out bad enough to dump it, then I’m reluctant to use it again. Who knows why this batch had an awful diacetyl off flavor? Too many variables to pin it down to the cause. I’m not hypersensitive to it, but this batch was noticeably “butter” and not worth keeping around.

I'm kind of this way.  If I use something and I just don't like the profile, I ignore it in the future.  But if I should like something (say, an English ale yeast) and I run into some kind of issue, I tend to stay away from it even though, in the end I know it was probably something I did.  I had some fresh 1028 a few years back and I smacked the pack and it didn't swell.  A week went by so I decided to make a starter and when I poured the contents into the starter flask the yeast was really dark.  The starter got active but the yeast had an unusual smell so I dumped it.  Some amount of time went by and I got some more 1028 and it was better.  I made one batch and then brewed a second batch and was going to harvest the yeast from another fermenter and when I opened that fermenter... whoa!  It smelled like a sewer.  Again, that had to be my fault.  But I haven't used 1028 again.