[erockrph]

Not sure what you mean?  Diseases that affect hop plant health and yield of flowers might be the biggest factor that varies across all the possible places that folks are growing them.  As far as "taste of place" goes- I know that my Chinook doesn't taste like commercially produced Chinook from the west, but might be similar to those from places like Michigan, as they definitely evoke pineapple in flavor and aroma.

I just meant if centennial has yield and disease problems when grown in PNW, should we expect the same in Indiana?

That will depend on what diseases are endemic to your area vs the PNW. For example, if a plant is susceptible to downy mildew but it's not a problem in your area, then it may be better suited for your climate.

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[hopfenundmalz]

Not sure what you mean?  Diseases that affect hop plant health and yield of flowers might be the biggest factor that varies across all the possible places that folks are growing them.  As far as "taste of place" goes- I know that my Chinook doesn't taste like commercially produced Chinook from the west, but might be similar to those from places like Michigan, as they definitely evoke pineapple in flavor and aroma.

I just meant if centennial has yield and disease problems when grown in PNW, should we expect the same in Indiana?

That will depend on what diseases are endemic to your area vs the PNW. For example, if a plant is susceptible to downy mildew but it's not a problem in your area, then it may be better suited for your climate.

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The mildews and wilts are more of a problem in the NE and Midwest. That is why hop production migrated to the PNW in the 1800s.

[b-hoppy]

So terroir doesn’t effect these other traits?
[/quote]

The region, and even down to a particular microclimate within a region will affect how a particular variety may perform.  Some perform very consistently across many areas, but when talking about Centennial, one grower from Oregon mentioned a condition called 'sleepy hop syndrome' that's brought about by relatively mild winters which doesn't allow the plants to completely 'reset' and causes really sporatic emergence come spring.  This can cause issues with cutback as some crowns will be getting cut at the appropriate time while some may be getting cut early or late - resulting in less than optimal yield. 

In the Yakima Valley, a farm that recently brought some acreage back into production up in the northern most point (Wenas Valley) claims that the area is absolutely ideal for growing Centennials.

When it comes to diseases, susceptibility/resistance is on kind of on a sliding scale from variety to variety so this is were the overall climate of a region comes into play in a big way.  Downy mildew is something that thrives under high moisture/humidity so growers in places with relatively regular rainfall during the growing season (Willamette Valley, Midwest, Northeast) have additional fungicide costs built into their budgets.  Conversely, the Yakima Valley only gets about 6-8 inches of natural precipitation yearly and may not have a control product for DM plugged into their program.  If they get some unusually rainy spells during the season, they will incur additional costs for fungicide and HOPE they can react in a timely manner to make sure they can keep the disease in check so is doesn't negatively affect the quality of the crop.

The big issue with most varieties is that until about 5-10 years ago, none of them were trialed anywhere but WA, OR and ID before their release.  The more places they're tested all adds to the cost and time it takes to bring them to market and is part of the issue with other regions having a hard time starting any sort of meaningful acreage outside of the 3 main states. 

I realized in the early-mid 90's that there was a big difference in the character of some commercial hops I was used to that were grown out west compared to those I grew in Ohio, especially Chinook.  Now that there are a few states like MI and NY with more than a few hundred acres planted, I always thought about those few hundred varieties that are kept out at the National Clonal Germplasm Repository in Corvallis.  The descriptors of growth/vigor/aroma/etc on file are based on those hops as they were grown and harvested out west.  What if someone had the resources to grow these varieties and do some quality lab work on the oil chemistry they produce in MI and NY to see what surprises they may reveal?  I suggested this idea to Mallett from Bell's at a hop conference in MI a few years ago but don't know if he did anything with the idea?

As time goes on and our society gets farther and farther away from Agriculture, the general population has a harder time seeing what goes on behind the scenes with plant science.  Hope some of this makes sense.

[erockrph]

So terroir doesn’t effect these other traits?

The region, and even down to a particular microclimate within a region will affect how a particular variety may perform.  Some perform very consistently across many areas, but when talking about Centennial, one grower from Oregon mentioned a condition called 'sleepy hop syndrome' that's brought about by relatively mild winters which doesn't allow the plants to completely 'reset' and causes really sporatic emergence come spring.  This can cause issues with cutback as some crowns will be getting cut at the appropriate time while some may be getting cut early or late - resulting in less than optimal yield. 

In the Yakima Valley, a farm that recently brought some acreage back into production up in the northern most point (Wenas Valley) claims that the area is absolutely ideal for growing Centennials.

When it comes to diseases, susceptibility/resistance is on kind of on a sliding scale from variety to variety so this is were the overall climate of a region comes into play in a big way.  Downy mildew is something that thrives under high moisture/humidity so growers in places with relatively regular rainfall during the growing season (Willamette Valley, Midwest, Northeast) have additional fungicide costs built into their budgets.  Conversely, the Yakima Valley only gets about 6-8 inches of natural precipitation yearly and may not have a control product for DM plugged into their program.  If they get some unusually rainy spells during the season, they will incur additional costs for fungicide and HOPE they can react in a timely manner to make sure they can keep the disease in check so is doesn't negatively affect the quality of the crop.

The big issue with most varieties is that until about 5-10 years ago, none of them were trialed anywhere but WA, OR and ID before their release.  The more places they're tested all adds to the cost and time it takes to bring them to market and is part of the issue with other regions having a hard time starting any sort of meaningful acreage outside of the 3 main states. 

I realized in the early-mid 90's that there was a big difference in the character of some commercial hops I was used to that were grown out west compared to those I grew in Ohio, especially Chinook.  Now that there are a few states like MI and NY with more than a few hundred acres planted, I always thought about those few hundred varieties that are kept out at the National Clonal Germplasm Repository in Corvallis.  The descriptors of growth/vigor/aroma/etc on file are based on those hops as they were grown and harvested out west.  What if someone had the resources to grow these varieties and do some quality lab work on the oil chemistry they produce in MI and NY to see what surprises they may reveal?  I suggested this idea to Mallett from Bell's at a hop conference in MI a few years ago but don't know if he did anything with the idea?

As time goes on and our society gets farther and farther away from Agriculture, the general population has a harder time seeing what goes on behind the scenes with plant science.  Hope some of this makes sense.

This is great info and makes perfect sense.

As far as oil content goes, i always wondered how much of the "terroir" was from soil composition and how much was from growing conditions. For example, I keep hearing about how pineapple-forward Michigan Chinook is. Could a grower in another region use soil amendments to mirror the soil composition? Or maybe plant under shade, in furrows, or on a hill to try to match the number/timing of frost days, last frost date, sunlight hours, etc. It's probably not viable on a commercial scale, but it's a neat thought experiment.

[chinaski]

The University of Vermont Extension (and others) have been running hop trials for the past 6-8 years to get at the agronomic and brewing qualities to get hop growing into our agricultural mix.  I think the biggest obstacle for commercial growing here is to produce a unique product without starting a hop-breeding program that will justify a premium price.  I know one grower who has been successful, primarily because their scale is right and a regional cider maker buys a lot of their hops for a hopped cider that they make.

[erockrph]

The University of Vermont Extension (and others) have been running hop trials for the past 6-8 years to get at the agronomic and brewing qualities to get hop growing into our agricultural mix.  I think the biggest obstacle for commercial growing here is to produce a unique product without starting a hop-breeding program that will justify a premium price.  I know one grower who has been successful, primarily because their scale is right and a regional cider maker buys a lot of their hops for a hopped cider that they make.

Is that the Lake Hopper by Citizen? I've shied away from commercial dry hopped cider because I wasn't a huge fan of it the time I tried it in my own cider. That said, Lake Hopper has piqued my interest because I really enjoy their other stuff that I've tried.

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[chinaski]

Probably?  It's definitely Citizen Cider who buys a lot of their hops.  I can't imagine that they produce more than one hopped cider, do they?  I don't buy much beer or cider so I haven't had it.  I have enjoyed one or two of their other ciders in the past; they definitely hit the local/regional market at a good time.

[Lazy Ant Brewing]

I'm not personally aware of anyone growing hops in my area of Southwest Indiana, but one of the guys in our local brew club harvested some  wild hops growing along a railroad right-of-way and brewed a tasty beer with it.

[Steve Ruch]

As I mow around my new house I don't see an area that has direct sun all day due to trees. Are there any hop varieties that do well with only partial sun?

[mabrungard]

Are there any hop varieties that do well with only partial sun?

Not really.  Hops do have to have full sun and an adequate water supply in order to grow well and produce hops.  I have a Northern Brewer bine that gets great morning sun, but little in the afternoon.  It is a poor producer.  My Cascade and Centennial have poor morning sun, but full afternoon sun and they are great producers. I'm betting that the variety has a lot to do with those results, but I'd recommend getting good afternoon sun.

[Bozinator]

I live in Joliet, IL ( Will County) I planted Cascade and Centennial 2 years ago. The cascade are doing Great!  2nd year lots of BIG hops. the Centennial are doing good not GREAT, fewer cones and not as big. Hoping a little more time with them. They are already coming up this year, the Cascade about 2' tall. the Centennial only about a foot. At the end of the year I do not cut them back all the way back to the ground. I understand nutrients in there will flow back to the root ball to help next years growth. Reading in this forum I've learned Centennial have a few problems, nice to know. I believe with maybe another year mine will produce as much as my Cascade do. I have heard each year will have a different effect on your/my harvest

[hopfenundmalz]

I live in Joliet, IL ( Will County) I planted Cascade and Centennial 2 years ago. The cascade are doing Great!  2nd year lots of BIG hops. the Centennial are doing good not GREAT, fewer cones and not as big. Hoping a little more time with them. They are already coming up this year, the Cascade about 2' tall. the Centennial only about a foot. At the end of the year I do not cut them back all the way back to the ground. I understand nutrients in there will flow back to the root ball to help next years growth. Reading in this forum I've learned Centennial have a few problems, nice to know. I believe with maybe another year mine will produce as much as my Cascade do. I have heard each year will have a different effect on your/my harvest

Even the farmers in Yakima get low yield from Centennial. My plant never gave more than two handfuls of small cones as compared to two grocery bags of Cascade cones.

The best yield of all the varieties I had was Chinook. Huge cones and maybe 4-5 grocery bags harvested.

I'm between Ann Arbor and Flint MI. Chinook loves Michigan. Centennial, not so much.

[denny]

I live in Joliet, IL ( Will County) I planted Cascade and Centennial 2 years ago. The cascade are doing Great!  2nd year lots of BIG hops. the Centennial are doing good not GREAT, fewer cones and not as big. Hoping a little more time with them. They are already coming up this year, the Cascade about 2' tall. the Centennial only about a foot. At the end of the year I do not cut them back all the way back to the ground. I understand nutrients in there will flow back to the root ball to help next years growth. Reading in this forum I've learned Centennial have a few problems, nice to know. I believe with maybe another year mine will produce as much as my Cascade do. I have heard each year will have a different effect on your/my harvest

If you ask hop growers around Yakima what variety they wish they didn't have to grow, the answer is always Centennial.  Disease prone, low yield. Add to that you're not in prime hop growing latitude.

[dannyjed]

My Homebrew Club, the Glass City Mashers, has an acre hop yard in NW Ohio. It was an experimental hop yard started by Ohio State University that we took over three years ago. I believe they were trying to find out which varieties would thrive in this region. We had Goldings, Galena, Mt. Hood, Sterling, Cenntenial, Cascade, Chinook, Williamette, Nugget, and Columbus. This year we removed Cenntennial, Williamette, and Goldings because they were not doing well and not producing. With the help of a Michigan hop farm, Mr. Wizards, we are planting more Cascade and Mackinaw. Our best yielding hops are Chinook, Columbus, and Nugget.


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[denny]

My Homebrew Club, the Glass City Mashers, has an acre hop yard in NW Ohio. It was an experimental hop yard started by Ohio State University that we took over three years ago. I believe they were trying to find out which varieties would thrive in this region. We had Goldings, Galena, Mt. Hood, Sterling, Cenntenial, Cascade, Chinook, Williamette, Nugget, and Columbus. This year we removed Cenntennial, Williamette, and Goldings because they were not doing well and not producing. With the help of a Michigan hop farm, Mr. Wizards, we are planting more Cascade and Mackinaw. Our best yielding hops are Chinook, Columbus, and Nugget.


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Very cool!