Author Topic: Diamond Lager Yeast  (Read 2233 times)

Offline Bel Air Brewing

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1294
Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2021, 04:17:47 pm »
Are we treating. Dry yeast differently per manufacturer? How complicated is it?  ???



I don't, but I take your point.

 I’m just following the expert advice that is freely given on this forum. How can I go wrong.
Winning Gold Medals isn't everything, but it sure is fun!

Offline Silver_Is_Money

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 292
  • Developer of 'Mash Made Easy'
    • Mash Made Easy, MashRite, LLC
Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2021, 05:46:13 pm »
To my knowledge, both Lallemand and Fermentis have embraced direct pitching.  And to top that, they both admit that aeration is unnecessary.

Offline Bel Air Brewing

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1294
Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2021, 07:02:50 pm »
To my knowledge, both Lallemand and Fermentis have embraced direct pitching.  And to top that, they both admit that aeration is unnecessary.

Very familiar with Fermentis, a complete stranger / novice with Lallemand. So I dumped it in, stirred things up a bit, and closed her up.
Winning Gold Medals isn't everything, but it sure is fun!

Offline Iliff Ave

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4311
Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2021, 08:17:28 pm »
To my knowledge, both Lallemand and Fermentis have embraced direct pitching.  And to top that, they both admit that aeration is unnecessary.

Very familiar with Fermentis, a complete stranger / novice with Lallemand. So I dumped it in, stirred things up a bit, and closed her up.

Are we treating dry yeast differently per manufacturer? How complicated is it?  ???
On Tap/Bottled: IPL, Adjunct Vienna, Golden Stout, Honey Lager
Fermenting: IPA
Up Next: mexi lager, Germerican pale ale

Offline Bel Air Brewing

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1294
Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2021, 04:45:43 am »
To my knowledge, both Lallemand and Fermentis have embraced direct pitching.  And to top that, they both admit that aeration is unnecessary.

Very familiar with Fermentis, a complete stranger / novice with Lallemand. So I dumped it in, stirred things up a bit, and closed her up.

Are we treating dry yeast differently per manufacturer? How complicated is it?  ???

...already asked, and answered. Or is there some other direct point that is trying to be made?

Having been highly successful in the largest single-site brewing competition, with both dry and liquid yeast from different companies, and treating said yeast differently for each manufacturer, it makes little difference at this point.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2021, 06:00:40 am by TXFlyGuy »
Winning Gold Medals isn't everything, but it sure is fun!

Offline roger

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 161
Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2021, 07:50:59 am »
Caution, Captain Obvious here.

Like most on this forum, I've tried pitching hydrated dry yeast and direct pitching dry yeast, and have a personal preference, but if an inexperienced brewer is reading this, you might be well-served to try both methods and decide for yourself if the time spent to rehydrate the yeast is worth it to you.

FWIW, regarding dry yeast suppliers official position on direct pitching, I found this just now on Lallemand's website:

Upon rehydration, dry cell membranes undergo a transition from gel to liquid crystal phase. Rehydration in sterile water is recommended prior to pitching into wort in order to reduce stress on the cell as it transitions from dry
to liquid form. Proper rehydration of dry yeast will produce a highly viable and vital liquid slurry.


However, digging a little deeper into their technical data sheet for Diamond Lager this is found:

DIRECT PITCH "no rehydration" Sprinkle  the  yeast  evenly  on  the  surface  of  the  wort  in  the  fermenter as it is being filled. The motion of the wort filling the fermenter will aid in mixing the yeast into the wort.

So their recommendation remains to rehydrate before pitching, but then they explain the process of direct pitching, although buried a bit in the data sheets. From memory, Fermentis has similar verbiage, or at least meaning, on their website. IMHO, they might have a clearer statement on why they recommend rehydration.
Roger

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 25495
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2021, 07:57:55 am »
To my knowledge, both Lallemand and Fermentis have embraced direct pitching.  And to top that, they both admit that aeration is unnecessary.

To the best of my knowledge, after speaking with microbiologists at both companies, I agree.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Iliff Ave

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4311
Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2021, 08:20:01 am »
To my knowledge, both Lallemand and Fermentis have embraced direct pitching.  And to top that, they both admit that aeration is unnecessary.

Very familiar with Fermentis, a complete stranger / novice with Lallemand. So I dumped it in, stirred things up a bit, and closed her up.

Are we treating dry yeast differently per manufacturer? How complicated is it?  ???

...already asked, and answered. Or is there some other direct point that is trying to be made?

Having been highly successful in the largest single-site brewing competition, with both dry and liquid yeast from different companies, and treating said yeast differently for each manufacturer, it makes little difference at this point.

Ha! Just messing around. I’ll stop. Just seems a little redundant lately.
On Tap/Bottled: IPL, Adjunct Vienna, Golden Stout, Honey Lager
Fermenting: IPA
Up Next: mexi lager, Germerican pale ale

Offline waterbull66

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2021, 10:36:54 am »
  Regarding the use by dates on dry yeast, I wouldn't sweat it overmuch. A couple months ago I direct pitched a sachet of S-23 with a use be date of 10/20 and it was fine. A few months prior I remember using a package of something that was more than 2 years past the use by date with no problems. Sorry but I don't want to invest the time digging through my records to get the specifics of which yeast it was, I pretty sure it was Fermentis. Liquid yeast though of course is an entirely different ball of wax.

Offline Bel Air Brewing

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1294
Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2021, 04:49:11 am »
  Regarding the use by dates on dry yeast, I wouldn't sweat it overmuch. A couple months ago I direct pitched a sachet of S-23 with a use be date of 10/20 and it was fine. A few months prior I remember using a package of something that was more than 2 years past the use by date with no problems. Sorry but I don't want to invest the time digging through my records to get the specifics of which yeast it was, I pretty sure it was Fermentis. Liquid yeast though of course is an entirely different ball of wax.

I wonder if yeast in general has the same characteristics? Bread yeast is not much good past expiration. Sure, you can bake bread with it, but the performance drops off by a wide margin. My motto is..."When in doubt, throw it out."

We just dumped 2 quarts of Czech yeast slurry. It looked very good, had a great aroma, but was so slow to get going. Even after making a good starter for it.
Winning Gold Medals isn't everything, but it sure is fun!

Offline Saccharomyces

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1136
  • Deus ex machina
Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2021, 08:33:05 am »
We just dumped 2 quarts of Czech yeast slurry. It looked very good, had a great aroma, but was so slow to get going. Even after making a good starter for it.

How in the world are you collecting two quarts of thick slurry from 10-gallons of beer? That is way past maximum cell density for 10 gallons, especially with lager yeast cultures which tend to have smaller yeast cells than ale cultures. I would be hard-pressed to collect 500ml of thick, relatively clean slurry from a 5.25-gallon batch. How trub-free is your wort going into the fermentation vessel?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 09:46:26 am by Saccharomyces »

Offline Bel Air Brewing

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1294
Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2021, 09:16:31 am »
We just dumped 2 quarts of Czech yeast slurry. It looked very good, had a great aroma, but was so slow to get going. Even after making a good starter for it.

How in the world are you collecting two quarts of thick slurry from 10-gallons of beer? That is way past maximum cell density for 10 gallons, especially with lager yeast cultures which tend to smaller yeast cells than ale cultures. I would be hard-pressed to collect 500ml of thick, relatively clean slurry from a 5.25-gallon batch. How trub-free is your wort going into the fermentation vessel?

My wort has nearly zero trub. Zero. And I commonly harvest between 1 and 2 quarts of slurry from a brew.
Maybe I'm doing this all wrong...I really don't know.

Here is what my yeast harvest looks like. This taken from 7 gallons, 2 full quarts, a couple days ago, S-04. The small spots you see are actually air pockets. This yeast is like peanut butter.



« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 09:47:30 am by TXFlyGuy »
Winning Gold Medals isn't everything, but it sure is fun!

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 25495
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2021, 09:47:03 am »
We just dumped 2 quarts of Czech yeast slurry. It looked very good, had a great aroma, but was so slow to get going. Even after making a good starter for it.

How in the world are you collecting two quarts of thick slurry from 10-gallons of beer? That is way past maximum cell density for 10 gallons, especially with lager yeast cultures which tend to smaller yeast cells than ale cultures. I would be hard-pressed to collect 500ml of thick, relatively clean slurry from a 5.25-gallon batch. How trub-free is your wort going into the fermentation vessel?

My wort has zero trub. Zero. And I commonly harvest between 1 and 2 quarts of slurry from a brew.
Maybe I'm doing this all wrong...I really don't know.

FWIW, when I harvest from a 6 gal. batch I end up with maybe 1-2 inches of slurry in a qt. jar.  So it kinda makes me wonder what you've got there.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Iliff Ave

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4311
Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2021, 09:54:37 am »
Now I’m confused. When I harvest slurry from 5 gallon batches, I collect a full quart with a lot left in the fermenter. When the yeast settles out the quart jar is about 3/4 full.
On Tap/Bottled: IPL, Adjunct Vienna, Golden Stout, Honey Lager
Fermenting: IPA
Up Next: mexi lager, Germerican pale ale

Offline Saccharomyces

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1136
  • Deus ex machina
Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2021, 10:03:34 am »
Now I’m confused. When I harvest slurry from 5 gallon batches, I collect a full quart with a lot left in the fermenter. When the yeast settles out the quart jar is about 3/4 full.

I am willing to bet that most of your crop is break material.  Next time, try swirling your solids back up into suspension, waiting a couple of minutes for the break and dead cells to settle out before decanting only the topmost liquid fraction.  I guarantee that your crop will be smaller and much cleaner, but it will have a higher per ml viable cell count because viable cells remain in suspension for a more than a couple of minutes whereas break and dead cells do not.