Author Topic: Diamond Lager Yeast  (Read 2228 times)

Offline Saccharomyces

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Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
« Reply #30 on: April 04, 2021, 10:06:06 am »
If one's crop does not look like this one after things settle out, one is cropping break, dead cells, and hop particulate matter.


Offline Iliff Ave

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Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
« Reply #31 on: April 04, 2021, 10:07:11 am »
Now I’m confused. When I harvest slurry from 5 gallon batches, I collect a full quart with a lot left in the fermenter. When the yeast settles out the quart jar is about 3/4 full.

I am willing to bet that most of your crop is break material.  Next time, try swirling your solids back up into suspension, waiting a couple of minutes for the break and dead cells to settle out before decanting only the topmost liquid fraction.  I guarantee that your crop will be smaller and much cleaner, but it will have a higher per ml viable cell count because viable cells remain in suspension for a more than a couple of minutes whereas break and dead cells do not.

So what about TX who gets zero trub? Zero
« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 10:09:27 am by Iliff Ave »
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Offline Saccharomyces

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Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2021, 10:08:17 am »
So what about TX who gets zero trub. Zero

That is not a zero trub, low dead cell crop, not even close.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 10:09:52 am by Saccharomyces »

Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2021, 11:17:15 am »
We just dumped 2 quarts of Czech yeast slurry. It looked very good, had a great aroma, but was so slow to get going. Even after making a good starter for it.

How in the world are you collecting two quarts of thick slurry from 10-gallons of beer? That is way past maximum cell density for 10 gallons, especially with lager yeast cultures which tend to smaller yeast cells than ale cultures. I would be hard-pressed to collect 500ml of thick, relatively clean slurry from a 5.25-gallon batch. How trub-free is your wort going into the fermentation vessel?

My wort has zero trub. Zero. And I commonly harvest between 1 and 2 quarts of slurry from a brew.
Maybe I'm doing this all wrong...I really don't know.

FWIW, when I harvest from a 6 gal. batch I end up with maybe 1-2 inches of slurry in a qt. jar.  So it kinda makes me wonder what you've got there.

This is 5th gen S-04, pulled off the Barley Wine I just kegged. It is super clean, and so thick we had to scrape it out of the fermenter with spoons and spatulas.

It would not drain out of the ports. In fact, the beer had to be siphoned out as the yeast had buried the drain ports.

Makes me wonder why I'm the only one who has such good luck with yeast harvesting, and getting such a nice volume (1 or 2 qts) of clean slurry? Go back and look at the photos. Clean. If there is trub, it is so little in volume that it's not noticeable.

I always swirl and decant prior to feeding, and then pitching harvested yeast.

Again, I must be doing something wrong.

I'm just a rookie here, as you all know!
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Offline Saccharomyces

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Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2021, 11:26:19 am »
You are not lucky.  You overpitch, which results in the carryover of a lot of dead cells.  A  properly pitched culture will not produce that much yeast.  That is way beyond maximum cell density, even accounting for replacement cell reproduction during the stationary phase.  The way to prove this phenomenon is to ferment in a clear fermenter.  If you have anything in the bottom of the fermenter after active fermentation has started, it is either break or dead yeast cells.  There is zero probability that seven gallons of wort will hold 1/2 gallon of yeast in suspension.

How do you chill?  Do you use an immersion chiller or do you pump through a plate/counterflow chiller? 

Offline denny

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Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2021, 11:34:46 am »
We just dumped 2 quarts of Czech yeast slurry. It looked very good, had a great aroma, but was so slow to get going. Even after making a good starter for it.

How in the world are you collecting two quarts of thick slurry from 10-gallons of beer? That is way past maximum cell density for 10 gallons, especially with lager yeast cultures which tend to smaller yeast cells than ale cultures. I would be hard-pressed to collect 500ml of thick, relatively clean slurry from a 5.25-gallon batch. How trub-free is your wort going into the fermentation vessel?

My wort has zero trub. Zero. And I commonly harvest between 1 and 2 quarts of slurry from a brew.
Maybe I'm doing this all wrong...I really don't know.

FWIW, when I harvest from a 6 gal. batch I end up with maybe 1-2 inches of slurry in a qt. jar.  So it kinda makes me wonder what you've got there.

This is 5th gen S-04, pulled off the Barley Wine I just kegged. It is super clean, and so thick we had to scrape it out of the fermenter with spoons and spatulas.

It would not drain out of the ports. In fact, the beer had to be siphoned out as the yeast had buried the drain ports.

Makes me wonder why I'm the only one who has such good luck with yeast harvesting, and getting such a nice volume (1 or 2 qts) of clean slurry? Go back and look at the photos. Clean. If there is trub, it is so little in volume that it's not noticeable.

I always swirl and decant prior to feeding, and then pitching harvested yeast.

Again, I must be doing something wrong.

I'm just a rookie here, as you all know!

When you think you're the only one who's right and everyone else is wrong it might be time to re examine things.
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Offline fredthecat

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Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2021, 12:50:23 pm »
Now I’m confused. When I harvest slurry from 5 gallon batches, I collect a full quart with a lot left in the fermenter. When the yeast settles out the quart jar is about 3/4 full.

I am willing to bet that most of your crop is break material.  Next time, try swirling your solids back up into suspension, waiting a couple of minutes for the break and dead cells to settle out before decanting only the topmost liquid fraction.  I guarantee that your crop will be smaller and much cleaner, but it will have a higher per ml viable cell count because viable cells remain in suspension for a more than a couple of minutes whereas break and dead cells do not.


ok, i see what youre talking about i think. and i'm interested.

can you explain this again though? so, after siphoning off the beer i want bottled/etc, the remaining beer and yeast slurry-cake at the bottom, i should give it a light swirling and use the liquid on top and leave the denser slurry?


then build a starter from there?

Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
« Reply #37 on: April 04, 2021, 01:52:28 pm »
You are not lucky.  You overpitch, which results in the carryover of a lot of dead cells.  A  properly pitched culture will not produce that much yeast.  That is way beyond maximum cell density, even accounting for replacement cell reproduction during the stationary phase.  The way to prove this phenomenon is to ferment in a clear fermenter.  If you have anything in the bottom of the fermenter after active fermentation has started, it is either break or dead yeast cells.  There is zero probability that seven gallons of wort will hold 1/2 gallon of yeast in suspension.

How do you chill?  Do you use an immersion chiller or do you pump through a plate/counterflow chiller?

There may be some dead cells, a possibility. But there is little if any trub, and no break material.

My brewing technique employs only whole leaf hops. We have a triple filter system in the boil kettle, and it catches 99.9% of all the gunk that I do not want in my wort. This includes hot-break, and cold-break. And, the trub remains behind in the BK.

Only clean, crystal clear wort goes into the fermenter. I am anal about this, to the point of being a freak.

In this example, the wort was 1.087 OG. The yeast loved it! And reproduced at a healthy rate. This ale yeast strain is unique to me, in that it is soooo thick in viscosity. Thicker than peanut butter. It was a challenge to get it out of the SS Conical, and into my storage jar.

During the harvest process, the S-04 was hyper clean, no crud or debris that was visible to our eyes.

My procedure and technique has been born out in beer competitions. What I post here is proprietary to our brewing, so it is absolutely correct for our situation.

The rest of those on this forum obviously have other procedures and techniques that work for them. That is fine.

But going forward, we will stick with the brewing procedure that produced the beers the BJCP folks liked, and that won multiple awards for us. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

You are correct, I am not lucky. The quality beer we make comes from dedicated hard work, long hours in the brew day, and skill developed over 3 decades.

Immersion chiller, copper. The chill process takes us about an hour, maybe longer. There is logic to this long chill time.

As always, thanks for your input.

« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 02:05:22 pm by TXFlyGuy »
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Offline Iliff Ave

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Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
« Reply #38 on: April 04, 2021, 07:21:10 pm »
What’s the reasoning behind an hour long chill time? I appreciate that you have decades of experience and award winning beers. Sounds like you should be dishing out the advice instead of asking for it.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 07:39:42 pm by Iliff Ave »
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Offline fredthecat

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Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
« Reply #39 on: April 04, 2021, 07:48:30 pm »
What’s the reasoning behind an hour long chill time? I appreciate that you have decades of experience and award winning beers. Sounds like you should be dishing out the advice instead of asking for it.

yup - "new to homebrewing" and also "3 decades of experience"


lol