Author Topic: Next Fermenter  (Read 1087 times)

Offline nateo

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Re: Next Fermenter
« Reply #30 on: April 07, 2021, 11:01:31 PM »
And that's why I don't participate in homebrew competitions. "Beer Nate Likes" is never one of the categories.
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Offline leejoreilly

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Re: Next Fermenter
« Reply #31 on: April 08, 2021, 01:32:51 PM »
I've gotta agree, Nate. It seems that competitions are (supposed to be) judged largely on compliance to style, not "enjoyability". Just because a brew scores really well doesn't mean that anyone in particular is going to enjoy it, just that it is "to style". I could name a few styles that I don't enjoy, and a 40-pointer in that style probably wouldn't change my opinion much.

I think that some homebrewers focus on success in competitions and some on brewing the most enjoyable result. Neither is "wrong", just differently motivated. I experienced this dichotomy in my old brew club - lots of VERY capable homebrewers and judges, but their main focus was brewing for competition, compliance to the BJCP and getting certified. Mine was on making enjoyable beers, so I eventually dropped out of the club, despite the quality of the membership.

Offline JB Eid

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Re: Next Fermenter
« Reply #32 on: April 08, 2021, 01:51:21 PM »
If you are serious about "Going Pro" then you should start scaling up now. There are lessons to be learned using a new SS conical fermenter with all the attachments, but you would be limiting your output to 5 gal batches. I would go with the largest capacity fermenter from within your current home capacity to accommodate it possibly half barrel. You didn't list your goals to "Go Pro", but only the capacity and the technology for fermenting i.e. the ss conical fermenter, we've no reference point to give you feedback beyond these variables:
+You want to Go Pro at some point.
+Moving from Carboy to Conical Fermenter.
+Moving from approximately 5-6 Gallon carboy (assumption) to 7-8 gallon fermenter.

Frankly the cycle time from each batch you brew is so long if you don't position yourself to manage "New Problems" you may never get yourself to Go Pro. For example 1 batch a month and you learn small nuances of your production, but it takes so much time to improve. One Holiday or Life event will likely through you off of your production schedule. If you scale up a little bit, you can introduce some new challenges downstream such as bottling or kegging, as well as learning how to scale up (pumps, heaters, chillers, cleaning) to cost out a brewpub or whatever size brewery.

But on the other hand, maybe you want to use this one as part of your R&D or yeast propagation...

Would be interested in your vision and goals to help provide better feedback.

Offline BrewBama

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Re: Next Fermenter
« Reply #33 on: April 08, 2021, 01:54:15 PM »
And that's why I don't participate in homebrew competitions. "Beer Nate Likes" is never one of the categories.
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Offline denny

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Re: Next Fermenter
« Reply #34 on: April 08, 2021, 02:50:22 PM »
Since this was published in a magazine I'll take it as legit -- my Miracle Worker Belgian Tripel placed #8 in the world ---

https://www.pastemagazine.com/drink/best-belgian-tripel/36-of-the-best-belgian-tripels-blind-tasted-and-ra/#8-yellowhammer-brewing-miracle-worker

While is a really good beer and I am super proud of that ranking (considering many of the beers it beat out) it doesn't really mean that it is the 8th best tripel in the world. Only in that contest and in that setting/tasting arrangement/etc.

My point is that just because it is in a magazine doesn't make it gold standard. I've had lots of beers place and be recognized in magazines.

(this also gives me a chance to brag a little  :) )

The other thing to keep in mind is that its not uncommon for breweries to pay for good reviews or awards from magazines.  I will not name names, but I know formam fact that it's done.
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Re: Next Fermenter
« Reply #35 on: April 08, 2021, 03:32:23 PM »
That is true but that wasn't the case with us (had and still have NO money). That review did little for us but boost our own egos. My point is that just because it is in a magazine doesn't make it the gold standard across the board. Bragging rights for sure! But not gospel.

Offline beersk

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Re: Next Fermenter
« Reply #36 on: April 08, 2021, 03:58:00 PM »
That is true but that wasn't the case with us (had and still have NO money). That review did little for us but boost our own egos. My point is that just because it is in a magazine doesn't make it the gold standard across the board. Bragging rights for sure! But not gospel.
So you quit and sold Yellowhammer? That must've been during my quiet years on here (2017-to present).

I have an SS Brewtech brewbucket for 5 gallon batches and use 5 gallon kegs (single strap for easier yeast harvesting) for my half batches. The SS Brewtech is a nice fermenter if you still want to keep it simple bucket-style.
Jesse

Offline denny

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Re: Next Fermenter
« Reply #37 on: April 08, 2021, 04:02:19 PM »
That is true but that wasn't the case with us (had and still have NO money). That review did little for us but boost our own egos. My point is that just because it is in a magazine doesn't make it the gold standard across the board. Bragging rights for sure! But not gospel.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply it was in any way connected to you.  And I agree with your point.
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Re: Next Fermenter
« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2021, 05:15:11 PM »

So you quit and sold Yellowhammer? That must've been during my quiet years on here (2017-to present).


Gosh, I wish. Long story but I am still a shareholder. Aside from shareholder meetings have nothing to do with the company. I don't even drink the beer and I'm trying to get bought out. It's ugly.

Offline nateo

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Re: Next Fermenter
« Reply #39 on: April 08, 2021, 05:45:09 PM »
A business partnership includes most of the downsides of marriage with none of the upsides, and it's even harder to get divorced.
In der Kürze liegt die Würze.

Offline HighVoltageMan!

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Re: Next Fermenter
« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2021, 07:25:03 PM »
It seems that competitions are (supposed to be) judged largely on compliance to style, not "enjoyability".

A good beer is a good beer. A well made German Pils that wins a tough competition is likely to be a very enjoyable beer to anyone who likes that style. It's just tough for judges to decide what is good and what is not at the same time being fair to all entries without the guidelines. In addition, a good judge will recognize that there often a wide girth in the guidelines and award the best beer despite their personal preferences.

If a brewer can brew to the BJCP style guideline and win, they most certain can brew enjoyable beers outside the guidelines. Some of my best beers I make can't put into any category, so I just enjoy them and share them with friends and family.

I enjoy the challenge of a competition and it has made me a much better brewer because of it. To each their own I guess, but don't discount the skill of brewing to the guidelines.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 07:28:56 PM by HighVoltageMan! »

Offline denny

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Re: Next Fermenter
« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2021, 07:41:26 PM »
I've gotta agree, Nate. It seems that competitions are (supposed to be) judged largely on compliance to style, not "enjoyability". Just because a brew scores really well doesn't mean that anyone in particular is going to enjoy it, just that it is "to style". I could name a few styles that I don't enjoy, and a 40-pointer in that style probably wouldn't change my opinion much.

I think that some homebrewers focus on success in competitions and some on brewing the most enjoyable result. Neither is "wrong", just differently motivated. I experienced this dichotomy in my old brew club - lots of VERY capable homebrewers and judges, but their main focus was brewing for competition, compliance to the BJCP and getting certified. Mine was on making enjoyable beers, so I eventually dropped out of the club, despite the quality of the membership.

Compliance to style is reasonably objective.  Enjoyability is completely subjective.  I judged a comp like that in NZ once, and it was a ton of fun  And that was the point.  But for a comp to be real, you have to use as objective a measure as you can get.  And compliance to style and enjoyability are not mutually exclusive.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline HighVoltageMan!

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Re: Next Fermenter
« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2021, 09:27:36 PM »
I've gotta agree, Nate. It seems that competitions are (supposed to be) judged largely on compliance to style, not "enjoyability". Just because a brew scores really well doesn't mean that anyone in particular is going to enjoy it, just that it is "to style". I could name a few styles that I don't enjoy, and a 40-pointer in that style probably wouldn't change my opinion much.

I think that some homebrewers focus on success in competitions and some on brewing the most enjoyable result. Neither is "wrong", just differently motivated. I experienced this dichotomy in my old brew club - lots of VERY capable homebrewers and judges, but their main focus was brewing for competition, compliance to the BJCP and getting certified. Mine was on making enjoyable beers, so I eventually dropped out of the club, despite the quality of the membership.

Compliance to style is reasonably objective.  Enjoyability is completely subjective.  I judged a comp like that in NZ once, and it was a ton of fun  And that was the point.  But for a comp to be real, you have to use as objective a measure as you can get.  And compliance to style and enjoyability are not mutually exclusive.
Well said.

Offline Saccharomyces

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Re: Next Fermenter
« Reply #43 on: April 08, 2021, 10:53:59 PM »
I find this conversation so interesting because I have gone the complete opposite direction: I am looking at a 3 gal fermenter to supplement my 7 gal fermenter for my small batches.

I just took possession of a Delta Brewing Systems 4-gallon fermenter, but it is more like 5 gallons to the rim and it has a domed lid.  I also own a 7-gallon SS Brewtech BrewBucket with domed lid.  If I have to chose between the two with respect to build quality, it would go to Delta Brewing Systems.  The only downside is that the thermometer I received with my fermenter is bit too long.  That does not matter because I am planning to stick an Inkbird thermoprobe in the thermowell and it easily fits.

https://www.deltabrewingsystems.com/products/the-fermtank-4-gallon-fermenter

Offline leejoreilly

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Re: Next Fermenter
« Reply #44 on: April 09, 2021, 12:46:07 PM »
I've gotta agree, Nate. It seems that competitions are (supposed to be) judged largely on compliance to style, not "enjoyability". Just because a brew scores really well doesn't mean that anyone in particular is going to enjoy it, just that it is "to style". I could name a few styles that I don't enjoy, and a 40-pointer in that style probably wouldn't change my opinion much.

I think that some homebrewers focus on success in competitions and some on brewing the most enjoyable result. Neither is "wrong", just differently motivated. I experienced this dichotomy in my old brew club - lots of VERY capable homebrewers and judges, but their main focus was brewing for competition, compliance to the BJCP and getting certified. Mine was on making enjoyable beers, so I eventually dropped out of the club, despite the quality of the membership.

Compliance to style is reasonably objective.  Enjoyability is completely subjective.  I judged a comp like that in NZ once, and it was a ton of fun  And that was the point.  But for a comp to be real, you have to use as objective a measure as you can get.  And compliance to style and enjoyability are not mutually exclusive.
Well said.

I agree with both of you. My point was that while compliance to style and enjoyability are certainly not mutually exclusive, neither are they mutually necessary. One can enjoy a beer that's not to style or not enjoy a particular 40-pointer. Sometimes the subjective and objective assessments are incompatible.

For me, I recognize BJCP as a valuable source of common vocabulary, and about the best way we have of objectively assessing and comparing brews. And I respect those who aim for high scoring beers, and succeed. But that's just not why I brew (or drink, for that matter).