Author Topic: Fermentis Dry Yeast Study  (Read 3687 times)

Offline PORTERHAUS

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Fermentis Dry Yeast Study
« on: April 13, 2021, 05:06:14 pm »
Fermentis just put out a very informative and detailed study they conducted on a few of their strains where rehydration vs direct pitch was tested. It also included different ways to rehydrate to test viability and performance vs direct pitching. There has been a lot of talk recently about this topic as it always seems to come up. For quite some time now we have been more comfortable recommending that aeration is not needed and also that direct pitching seems to work just as good and there is no need for rehydration. Well, for those that like the scientific side of things over the general word of mouth or because so and so on the forum said so or someone got secret squirrel information in an email...here ya go.


I haven't seen this mentioned or pop up so if it's already posted, delete it.

https://youtu.be/OJp8O6s9va0
« Last Edit: April 13, 2021, 05:08:45 pm by PORTERHAUS »

Offline ravenwater

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Re: Fermentis Dry Yeast Study
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2021, 05:48:18 pm »
Thanks for sharing! I will take a look when I have a bit of time. Sounds like it could contain information worth having.
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Fermentis Dry Yeast Study
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2021, 06:39:15 pm »
If you don't want to watch an hour long webinar the information is also in this pamphlet

https://fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Brochure_Tips_and_Tricks_BAT_BD.pdf

Offline fredthecat

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Re: Fermentis Dry Yeast Study
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2021, 07:27:19 pm »
Fermentis just put out a very informative and detailed study they conducted on a few of their strains where rehydration vs direct pitch was tested. It also included different ways to rehydrate to test viability and performance vs direct pitching. There has been a lot of talk recently about this topic as it always seems to come up. For quite some time now we have been more comfortable recommending that aeration is not needed and also that direct pitching seems to work just as good and there is no need for rehydration. Well, for those that like the scientific side of things over the general word of mouth or because so and so on the forum said so or someone got secret squirrel information in an email...here ya go.


I haven't seen this mentioned or pop up so if it's already posted, delete it.


excellent, im just watching now and havent seen the presenter's verdict on rehydrate vs direct but it starts around 18:30
https://youtu.be/OJp8O6s9va0


edit: this is INCREDIBLE information on testing. this is great so far. wow. temp barely matters, time of rehydration barely matters, without agitation produced better results than mixing or agitation.

ok, and well it looks like there is basically no difference in results in almost any way between direct pitch and rehydration. also very little loss of vitality between fresh yeast and "artifically aged for 3 years" yeast in their study.

dry yeast, at least produced by fermentis, is really hardy stuff.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2021, 07:45:48 pm by fredthecat »

Offline denny

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Re: Fermentis Dry Yeast Study
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2021, 07:52:28 pm »
Fermentis just put out a very informative and detailed study they conducted on a few of their strains where rehydration vs direct pitch was tested. It also included different ways to rehydrate to test viability and performance vs direct pitching. There has been a lot of talk recently about this topic as it always seems to come up. For quite some time now we have been more comfortable recommending that aeration is not needed and also that direct pitching seems to work just as good and there is no need for rehydration. Well, for those that like the scientific side of things over the general word of mouth or because so and so on the forum said so or someone got secret squirrel information in an email...here ya go.


I haven't seen this mentioned or pop up so if it's already posted, delete it.


excellent, im just watching now and havent seen the presenter's verdict on rehydrate vs direct but it starts around 18:30
https://youtu.be/OJp8O6s9va0


edit: this is INCREDIBLE information on testing. this is great so far. wow. temp barely matters, time of rehydration barely matters, without agitation produced better results than mixing or agitation.

ok, and well it looks like there is basically no difference in results in almost any way between direct pitch and rehydration. also very little loss of vitality between fresh yeast and "artifically aged for 3 years" yeast in their study.

dry yeast, at least produced by fermentis, is really hardy stuff.

Which is pretty much what they've been saying in their seminars for the last 5 years.
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Offline Saccharomyces

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Re: Fermentis Dry Yeast Study
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2021, 08:50:42 pm »
If you don't want to watch an hour long webinar the information is also in this pamphlet

https://fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Brochure_Tips_and_Tricks_BAT_BD.pdf

Not all of the information that was covered in the webinar is included in the pamphlet.  I was finally glad to see someone backing up what I have said for years about the impact of shear stress on viability in stirred cultures.  Most people poo-pooed me on that claim because they were worshiping at the alter of Kai Troester, which stated that stirred cultures produced more cells.  Stirred cultures produce more cells because shear stress from the stir bar kills more cells.  The only cell count that matters is the viable cell count.  Yeast cells reproduce for replacement only after maximum cell density has been reached.  If there is no carbon source for the creation of replacement cells, the viable cell count actually goes down.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2021, 08:54:38 pm by Saccharomyces »

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Fermentis Dry Yeast Study
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2021, 09:18:43 pm »
edit: this is INCREDIBLE information on testing. this is great so far. wow. temp barely matters, time of rehydration barely matters, without agitation produced better results than mixing or agitation.

ok, and well it looks like there is basically no difference in results in almost any way between direct pitch and rehydration. also very little loss of vitality between fresh yeast and "artifically aged for 3 years" yeast in their study.

dry yeast, at least produced by fermentis, is really hardy stuff.

Thanks for the quick summary.  I am not at all surprised.  In my own homebrewery, experience has demonstrated many dozens of times all of these truths.  Which are part of the reasons why I tend to use dried yeasts almost all the time now and have for several years.  If we could eventually obtain great dried yeasts for every style... well I believe I would!  Things are getting better every year, closer and closer, that's for sure.
Dave

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Offline majorvices

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Re: Fermentis Dry Yeast Study
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2021, 09:55:46 pm »
If you don't want to watch an hour long webinar the information is also in this pamphlet

https://fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Brochure_Tips_and_Tricks_BAT_BD.pdf

Not all of the information that was covered in the webinar is included in the pamphlet.

True but some of the same graphs and information was in there. Likewise not all of the information in the pamphlet was covered in the webinar. Both are good resources for the subject.

Offline denny

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Re: Fermentis Dry Yeast Study
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2021, 09:56:59 pm »
edit: this is INCREDIBLE information on testing. this is great so far. wow. temp barely matters, time of rehydration barely matters, without agitation produced better results than mixing or agitation.

ok, and well it looks like there is basically no difference in results in almost any way between direct pitch and rehydration. also very little loss of vitality between fresh yeast and "artifically aged for 3 years" yeast in their study.

dry yeast, at least produced by fermentis, is really hardy stuff.

Thanks for the quick summary.  I am not at all surprised.  In my own homebrewery, experience has demonstrated many dozens of times all of these truths.  Which are part of the reasons why I tend to use dried yeasts almost all the time now and have for several years.  If we could eventually obtain great dried yeasts for every style... well I believe I would!  Things are getting better every year, closer and closer, that's for sure.

The best data are data you gather yourself
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline PORTERHAUS

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Re: Fermentis Dry Yeast Study
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2021, 11:40:54 am »
excellent, im just watching now and havent seen the presenter's verdict on rehydrate vs direct but it starts around 18:30
https://youtu.be/OJp8O6s9va0

edit: this is INCREDIBLE information on testing. this is great so far. wow. temp barely matters, time of rehydration barely matters, without agitation produced better results than mixing or agitation.

ok, and well it looks like there is basically no difference in results in almost any way between direct pitch and rehydration. also very little loss of vitality between fresh yeast and "artifically aged for 3 years" yeast in their study.

dry yeast, at least produced by fermentis, is really hardy stuff.

I found it very interesting as well, it's different to see it like this with the testing and data for all the different scenarios.

Offline goose

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Re: Fermentis Dry Yeast Study
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2021, 01:18:36 pm »
edit: this is INCREDIBLE information on testing. this is great so far. wow. temp barely matters, time of rehydration barely matters, without agitation produced better results than mixing or agitation.

ok, and well it looks like there is basically no difference in results in almost any way between direct pitch and rehydration. also very little loss of vitality between fresh yeast and "artifically aged for 3 years" yeast in their study.

dry yeast, at least produced by fermentis, is really hardy stuff.

Thanks for the quick summary.  I am not at all surprised.  In my own homebrewery, experience has demonstrated many dozens of times all of these truths.  Which are part of the reasons why I tend to use dried yeasts almost all the time now and have for several years.  If we could eventually obtain great dried yeasts for every style... well I believe I would!  Things are getting better every year, closer and closer, that's for sure.

The best data are data you gather yourself

+1
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Offline beersk

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Re: Fermentis Dry Yeast Study
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2021, 06:26:06 pm »
edit: this is INCREDIBLE information on testing. this is great so far. wow. temp barely matters, time of rehydration barely matters, without agitation produced better results than mixing or agitation.

ok, and well it looks like there is basically no difference in results in almost any way between direct pitch and rehydration. also very little loss of vitality between fresh yeast and "artifically aged for 3 years" yeast in their study.

dry yeast, at least produced by fermentis, is really hardy stuff.

Thanks for the quick summary.  I am not at all surprised.  In my own homebrewery, experience has demonstrated many dozens of times all of these truths.  Which are part of the reasons why I tend to use dried yeasts almost all the time now and have for several years.  If we could eventually obtain great dried yeasts for every style... well I believe I would!  Things are getting better every year, closer and closer, that's for sure.
We need a dry yeast for WY1084!!!
Jesse

Offline erockrph

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Re: Fermentis Dry Yeast Study
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2021, 07:01:53 pm »
edit: this is INCREDIBLE information on testing. this is great so far. wow. temp barely matters, time of rehydration barely matters, without agitation produced better results than mixing or agitation.

ok, and well it looks like there is basically no difference in results in almost any way between direct pitch and rehydration. also very little loss of vitality between fresh yeast and "artifically aged for 3 years" yeast in their study.

dry yeast, at least produced by fermentis, is really hardy stuff.

Thanks for the quick summary.  I am not at all surprised.  In my own homebrewery, experience has demonstrated many dozens of times all of these truths.  Which are part of the reasons why I tend to use dried yeasts almost all the time now and have for several years.  If we could eventually obtain great dried yeasts for every style... well I believe I would!  Things are getting better every year, closer and closer, that's for sure.
We need a dry yeast for WY1084!!!
And 1469, 1762, 2278, if we're starting a wish list  ;D
Eric B.

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Offline denny

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Re: Fermentis Dry Yeast Study
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2021, 07:06:34 pm »
edit: this is INCREDIBLE information on testing. this is great so far. wow. temp barely matters, time of rehydration barely matters, without agitation produced better results than mixing or agitation.

ok, and well it looks like there is basically no difference in results in almost any way between direct pitch and rehydration. also very little loss of vitality between fresh yeast and "artifically aged for 3 years" yeast in their study.

dry yeast, at least produced by fermentis, is really hardy stuff.

Thanks for the quick summary.  I am not at all surprised.  In my own homebrewery, experience has demonstrated many dozens of times all of these truths.  Which are part of the reasons why I tend to use dried yeasts almost all the time now and have for several years.  If we could eventually obtain great dried yeasts for every style... well I believe I would!  Things are getting better every year, closer and closer, that's for sure.
We need a dry yeast for WY1084!!!
And 1469, 1762, 2278, if we're starting a wish list  ;D

Think about how far US05 is from 1056.  Then ask yourself what dry versions of those would be like.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Online tommymorris

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Re: Fermentis Dry Yeast Study
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2021, 07:49:17 pm »
edit: this is INCREDIBLE information on testing. this is great so far. wow. temp barely matters, time of rehydration barely matters, without agitation produced better results than mixing or agitation.

ok, and well it looks like there is basically no difference in results in almost any way between direct pitch and rehydration. also very little loss of vitality between fresh yeast and "artifically aged for 3 years" yeast in their study.

dry yeast, at least produced by fermentis, is really hardy stuff.

Thanks for the quick summary.  I am not at all surprised.  In my own homebrewery, experience has demonstrated many dozens of times all of these truths.  Which are part of the reasons why I tend to use dried yeasts almost all the time now and have for several years.  If we could eventually obtain great dried yeasts for every style... well I believe I would!  Things are getting better every year, closer and closer, that's for sure.
We need a dry yeast for WY1084!!!
And 1469, 1762, 2278, if we're starting a wish list  ;D

Think about how far US05 is from 1056.  Then ask yourself what dry versions of those would be like.
Do you think US-05 has slowly drifted from the liquid versions or was always peachy? I used to use it a lot the 2010-2015 time frame. I don’t remember the peach but I was new to brewing so I might not have noticed.