Author Topic: Off Flavor Cause?  (Read 809 times)

Offline Gfellman

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Off Flavor Cause?
« on: May 05, 2021, 10:27:30 am »
I recently finished a beer I brewed as an experiment for an advertising client of mine. They asked me to brew a beer using their product. When I tasted a sample I pulled during fermentation it had a serious off-flavor. The aroma was wonderful but it had a chemical/medicinal taste. I had a mishap during the brew that could have contaminated it, however, I was very careful with sanitization, so I doubt it.

Thanks to the latest issue of Zymurgy, it seems it was more likely an issue with the yeast. For one, I pitched one packet of Hornindal Kviek slurry into the aerated, OG 1.052, wort, no starter. Perhaps the gravity stressed the yeast. Another possibility was stress caused by temperature fluctuations. But then I thought about my client-supplied secret ingredient. Was there something in it that messed with fermentation? Here is the ingredient list. Could the potassium sorbate have affected fermentation?

"carbonated water · orange juice from concentrate · sugar · lemon juice from concentrate · orange pulp · mandarin pulp · mandarin juice from concentrate · grapefruit juice from concentrate · orange peel extract · potassium sorbate (preservative) · natural orange flavors."


Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Off Flavor Cause?
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2021, 01:52:13 pm »
Welcome to the forum!  Did the water have chlorine in it?  Tap water often has chlorine, such that the water must be treated to remove it (Campden Tablets - potassium metabisulfite, or sodium metabisulfite is the one way to quickly treat chlorinated water.)  The amount of Hornindal used may impact the flavor, too, as Kviek strains often do best when very little is pitched (on the order of less than a tablespoon for a 5 gallon batch).  The potassium sorbate may have inhibited fermentation, also.  Finally, the ingredient list sounds like a recipe for a fair amount of phenolics in the end flavor - is it possible that what you are tasting is phenolic?

Best of luck on giving it another go!
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Off Flavor Cause?
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2021, 04:32:47 pm »
I doubt it had anything to do with the yeast. That's a pretty complicated special ingredient list. I'm assuming there was also malt? Do you have an actual recipe?

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Off Flavor Cause?
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2021, 07:22:02 pm »
Sounds like Seltzer to me.....
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Offline Gfellman

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Re: Off Flavor Cause?
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2021, 07:59:31 am »
Hey all, just to clear up any confusion, that ingredient list was just for the special ingredient which was Orangina. The rest of the recipe was a typical pale ale grain bill.

Offline erockrph

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Re: Off Flavor Cause?
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2021, 08:33:39 am »
Hey all, just to clear up any confusion, that ingredient list was just for the special ingredient which was Orangina. The rest of the recipe was a typical pale ale grain bill.
It makes me wonder if there is chlorine in the water source used for the Orangina

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Offline majorvices

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Re: Off Flavor Cause?
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2021, 09:34:50 am »
It's hard to say exactly without knowing your brewing processes. I agree that it's possible that the water was unfiltered and chlorine or chloramines were present. That can produce a very medicinal off flavor like band-aid, clove, etc.

Offline Homebrew_kev

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Re: Off Flavor Cause?
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2021, 05:57:14 pm »
Sounds like you made pruno. Fermented oranges aren't very good.

Offline fredthecat

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Re: Off Flavor Cause?
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2021, 07:30:27 pm »
Sounds like you made pruno. Fermented oranges aren't very good.


this. and also the pH of this product.

i had fermented orange juice as a commercial product in jeju island. it tasted like toothpaste.

Offline majorvices

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Re: Off Flavor Cause?
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2021, 05:50:12 am »
I considered this. But I have also used aseptic citrus puree before without any off flavors. I have also fermented directly on quartered oranges and git a fantastic result. I have heard that fermented irange juice tastes bad. I have personally never tried it.

Offline BrewBama

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Off Flavor Cause?
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2021, 07:56:47 am »
The guys at Basic Brewing threw a chunk of frozen grapefruit juice in at flameout to help cool the wort. They said it tasted great and recommended using tangerine juice for folks who can’t have grapefruit.

Amaretti recommends adding their purée anywhere in the process.

...

i had fermented orange juice as a commercial product in jeju island. ...

Hey, I’ve been to Jeju-do
« Last Edit: May 07, 2021, 07:59:57 am by BrewBama »

Offline Gfellman

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Re: Off Flavor Cause?
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2021, 08:31:52 am »
Based on some of the ideas here, I think it might have been a combination of phenols from possible chlorinated water in the Orangina. I added campden tabs to my strike water the night before but poured the Orangina into the wort pre-boil. That and the potential for potassium sorbate to inhibit yeast growth during fermentation, which could have stressed it out. 

Offline fredthecat

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Re: Off Flavor Cause?
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2021, 08:47:21 am »
The guys at Basic Brewing threw a chunk of frozen grapefruit juice in at flameout to help cool the wort. They said it tasted great and recommended using tangerine juice for folks who can’t have grapefruit.

Amaretti recommends adding their purée anywhere in the process.

...

i had fermented orange juice as a commercial product in jeju island. ...

Hey, I’ve been to Jeju-do

i have incredibly memories of it from before 2013. ive been back a few times since then but it's lost its charm through intense development and insane numbers of chinese tourists. nowadays one can do better by finding nice locations on the southern coast of korea.

Offline BrewBama

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Re: Off Flavor Cause?
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2021, 08:50:16 am »
Shame. I was there in ‘83

Offline erockrph

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Re: Off Flavor Cause?
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2021, 10:09:46 am »
I considered this. But I have also used aseptic citrus puree before without any off flavors. I have also fermented directly on quartered oranges and git a fantastic result. I have heard that fermented irange juice tastes bad. I have personally never tried it.
I've had a few citrus wines from Florida. Most were lousy, including the orange one. The Key Lime one was a great stand in for a Margarita, though.

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