Author Topic: Fermentis Dry Yeast Study  (Read 2094 times)

Offline denny

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Re: Fermentis Dry Yeast Study
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2021, 08:06:30 PM »
edit: this is INCREDIBLE information on testing. this is great so far. wow. temp barely matters, time of rehydration barely matters, without agitation produced better results than mixing or agitation.

ok, and well it looks like there is basically no difference in results in almost any way between direct pitch and rehydration. also very little loss of vitality between fresh yeast and "artifically aged for 3 years" yeast in their study.

dry yeast, at least produced by fermentis, is really hardy stuff.

Thanks for the quick summary.  I am not at all surprised.  In my own homebrewery, experience has demonstrated many dozens of times all of these truths.  Which are part of the reasons why I tend to use dried yeasts almost all the time now and have for several years.  If we could eventually obtain great dried yeasts for every style... well I believe I would!  Things are getting better every year, closer and closer, that's for sure.
We need a dry yeast for WY1084!!!
And 1469, 1762, 2278, if we're starting a wish list  ;D

Think about how far US05 is from 1056.  Then ask yourself what dry versions of those would be like.
Do you think US-05 has slowly drifted from the liquid versions or was always peachy? I used to use it a lot the 2010-2015 time frame. I don’t remember the peach but I was new to brewing so I might not have noticed.

I think it's always been there.  I don't recall 05 ever being a lot like 1056.
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Offline BrewBama

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Re: Fermentis Dry Yeast Study
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2021, 08:40:15 PM »
We need a dry yeast for WY1084!!!
And 1469, 1762, 2278, if we're starting a wish list  ;D

Think about how far US05 is from 1056.  Then ask yourself what dry versions of those would be like.

Some home brewers around the world can’t reliably get liquid strains so I vote for as many dry strains as possible.


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Offline denny

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Re: Fermentis Dry Yeast Study
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2021, 09:01:03 PM »
We need a dry yeast for WY1084!!!
And 1469, 1762, 2278, if we're starting a wish list  ;D

Think about how far US05 is from 1056.  Then ask yourself what dry versions of those would be like.

Some home brewers around the world can’t reliably get liquid strains so I vote for as many dry strains as possible.


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Of course.  I've spent a fair amount of time with homebrewers in South America and dry yeast is 98% of what they can get and use.  I should have said something to the effect of "don't necessarily expect any dry yeast to be a lot like the liquid "equivalent"".
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Offline tommymorris

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Fermentis Dry Yeast Study
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2021, 09:01:48 PM »
We need a dry yeast for WY1084!!!
And 1469, 1762, 2278, if we're starting a wish list  ;D

Think about how far US05 is from 1056.  Then ask yourself what dry versions of those would be like.

Some home brewers around the world can’t reliably get liquid strains so I vote for as many dry strains as possible.


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Yes. It may not be fair to state they are equivalent to specific liquid strains. But, many are good and dry yeast users need/want variety too.

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Fermentis Dry Yeast Study
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2021, 10:39:11 PM »
We need a dry yeast for WY1084!!!
And 1469, 1762, 2278, if we're starting a wish list  ;D

2278 isn't very far off from W-34/70.

But yeah, the others really don't have any great dried equivalents.
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Offline clibit

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Re: Fermentis Dry Yeast Study
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2021, 10:54:10 PM »
The best data are data you gather yourself
Speak for yourself! You big beer geek you. 😉

Offline erockrph

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Re: Fermentis Dry Yeast Study
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2021, 10:28:25 AM »
We need a dry yeast for WY1084!!!
And 1469, 1762, 2278, if we're starting a wish list  ;D

2278 isn't very far off from W-34/70.

But yeah, the others really don't have any great dried equivalents.
Interesting - I find 2278 to be fairly different from 34/70. In my experience, 2278 tends to let hop flavor shine through while 34/70 tends to mute hop expression. Also, I have never gotten any sulfur from 34/70 no matter how I've used it. WY2278 gives me that faint matchstick character that you get from a lot of continental lagers.
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Offline beersk

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Re: Fermentis Dry Yeast Study
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2021, 06:45:52 PM »
edit: this is INCREDIBLE information on testing. this is great so far. wow. temp barely matters, time of rehydration barely matters, without agitation produced better results than mixing or agitation.

ok, and well it looks like there is basically no difference in results in almost any way between direct pitch and rehydration. also very little loss of vitality between fresh yeast and "artifically aged for 3 years" yeast in their study.

dry yeast, at least produced by fermentis, is really hardy stuff.

Thanks for the quick summary.  I am not at all surprised.  In my own homebrewery, experience has demonstrated many dozens of times all of these truths.  Which are part of the reasons why I tend to use dried yeasts almost all the time now and have for several years.  If we could eventually obtain great dried yeasts for every style... well I believe I would!  Things are getting better every year, closer and closer, that's for sure.
We need a dry yeast for WY1084!!!
And 1469, 1762, 2278, if we're starting a wish list  ;D

Think about how far US05 is from 1056.  Then ask yourself what dry versions of those would be like.
Yes, this is true... Still it'd be nice to have the option.
Jesse

Offline erockrph

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Re: Fermentis Dry Yeast Study
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2021, 09:01:27 PM »
edit: this is INCREDIBLE information on testing. this is great so far. wow. temp barely matters, time of rehydration barely matters, without agitation produced better results than mixing or agitation.

ok, and well it looks like there is basically no difference in results in almost any way between direct pitch and rehydration. also very little loss of vitality between fresh yeast and "artifically aged for 3 years" yeast in their study.

dry yeast, at least produced by fermentis, is really hardy stuff.

Thanks for the quick summary.  I am not at all surprised.  In my own homebrewery, experience has demonstrated many dozens of times all of these truths.  Which are part of the reasons why I tend to use dried yeasts almost all the time now and have for several years.  If we could eventually obtain great dried yeasts for every style... well I believe I would!  Things are getting better every year, closer and closer, that's for sure.
We need a dry yeast for WY1084!!!
And 1469, 1762, 2278, if we're starting a wish list  ;D

Think about how far US05 is from 1056.  Then ask yourself what dry versions of those would be like.
Yes, this is true... Still it'd be nice to have the option.
Indeed. I'd take a dry English strain that is fruitier than Winsor, a dry Belgian strain that is dark fruit forward and less phenolic, and a hop-accentuating dry lager yeast, even if they aren't exactly equivalent to 1469, 1762 or 2278.

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Offline Saccharomyces

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Re: Fermentis Dry Yeast Study
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2021, 09:55:53 PM »
Do you think US-05 has slowly drifted from the liquid versions or was always peachy? I used to use it a lot the 2010-2015 time frame. I don’t remember the peach but I was new to brewing so I might not have noticed.

I believe that the seed culture is close to the original, but we are talking about an industrial process that takes a colony that grows from a single yeast cell on a plate and turns it into tens of tons of yeast via the respirative (aerobic) metabolic pathway.  That is a lot of cell generations to go without actually fermenting anything.  Fermentation is a selective stress because fermentation produces ethanol and ethanol places stress on a yeast culture.  If you viewed the webinar, the speaker alluded to replicating yeast in a way that maximizes ATP production. ATP is a form of energy that can be used directly by cells.  When we pitch yeast, the medium is above the Crabtree threshold; therefore, yeast cells replicate using their fermentative (anaerobic) metabolic pathway.  Ethanol, esters, and diketones (e.g., diacetyl) are metabolic waste products that are the result of inefficiency in the fermentative metabolic pathway.   The guys at the dry yeast plants are keeping the medium below the Crabtree threshold, so that the culture never produces any of these carbon-based metabolic products.  It converts a carbon source (sugar is carbon bound to water) into energy, carbon dioxide, and water.  It is a very efficient way to propagate yeast, but I believe that it has side effects. However, that is just my opinion.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2021, 10:08:06 PM by Saccharomyces »

Offline Steve Ruch

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Re: Fermentis Dry Yeast Study
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2021, 10:17:12 PM »
We need a dry yeast for WY1084!!!
And 1469, 1762, 2278, if we're starting a wish list  ;D

Think about how far US05 is from 1056.  Then ask yourself what dry versions of those would be like.

Some home brewers around the world can’t reliably get liquid strains so I vote for as many dry strains as possible.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Of course.  I've spent a fair amount of time with homebrewers in South America and dry yeast is 98% of what they can get and use.  I should have said something to the effect of "don't necessarily expect any dry yeast to be a lot like the liquid "equivalent"".
Equivalent or not, does it give you the results you want in the finished beer!
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Offline clibit

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Re: Fermentis Dry Yeast Study
« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2021, 08:14:59 AM »
Indeed. I'd take a dry English strain that is fruitier than Winsor, a dry Belgian strain that is dark fruit forward and less phenolic, and a hop-accentuating dry lager yeast, even if they aren't exactly equivalent to 1469, 1762 or 2278.

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I'd say...
Verdant IPA is English and fruitier than Windsor. It is not much different from 1318 and started life as 1318. I'm English and drink cask regularly in England.

And Lallemand Abbaye is dark fruit forward and less phenolic.

I like both of these a lot.

Offline erockrph

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Re: Fermentis Dry Yeast Study
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2021, 12:34:53 PM »
Indeed. I'd take a dry English strain that is fruitier than Winsor, a dry Belgian strain that is dark fruit forward and less phenolic, and a hop-accentuating dry lager yeast, even if they aren't exactly equivalent to 1469, 1762 or 2278.

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I'd say...
Verdant IPA is English and fruitier than Windsor. It is not much different from 1318 and started life as 1318. I'm English and drink cask regularly in England.

And Lallemand Abbaye is dark fruit forward and less phenolic.

I like both of these a lot.
Thanks for the tips! I'll have to add these to the queue.

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Offline fredthecat

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Re: Fermentis Dry Yeast Study
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2021, 04:05:56 PM »
Indeed. I'd take a dry English strain that is fruitier than Winsor, a dry Belgian strain that is dark fruit forward and less phenolic, and a hop-accentuating dry lager yeast, even if they aren't exactly equivalent to 1469, 1762 or 2278.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
I'd say...
Verdant IPA is English and fruitier than Windsor. It is not much different from 1318 and started life as 1318. I'm English and drink cask regularly in England.

And Lallemand Abbaye is dark fruit forward and less phenolic.

I like both of these a lot.

yup i really want to try verdant IPA (what an odd name tho?) and to a slightly lesser extent lallemand abbaye.

anyone actually a fan of T58? It's a nostalgic yeast, but honestly I find it versatile and the flavours it produces pleasant. it is also usually very cheap, around $3

Offline PORTERHAUS

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Re: Fermentis Dry Yeast Study
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2021, 04:25:59 PM »
I have a pack of the Verdant yeast as well, waiting to use that in a Hazy IPA sometime, maybe over the summer. I'm gonna throw out another Fermentis yeast that doesn't get too much attention. S-33, to me it's ballpark flavor profile and mouthfeel of Wyeast 1969. It gets to work fast, goes hard and leaves a bit of sugars behind, doesn't drop clear like 1969 but for a few beers I really like it. English Porter, Stouts, Amber Ales, Browns...middle of the road ales where you can go either American or English yeast.