[apack76]

Good afternoon!  I bought a pale ale kit from my local homebrew store.  I started to unpack it and the Irish Moss is missing.  I don't have any time to go back and get some.  I heard unflavored gelatin is a good substitute.  But I have no idea how much to put in, when to do it and a good name brand.  Help please.

Thanks!

[pete b]

You can do without it if you have to, it just helps sink the gunk in your wort. Your finished beer may, or may not, be a little less clear and you will probably have more sediment in your fermenter. Taste will not be effected.
I think we have all made batches where we forgot it.


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[apack76]

Thanks, Pete!  I've only been brewing for almost 4 months.  It's been a fun learning process.   

[spurviance]

Good afternoon!  I bought a pale ale kit from my local homebrew store.  I started to unpack it and the Irish Moss is missing.  I don't have any time to go back and get some.  I heard unflavored gelatin is a good substitute.  But I have no idea how much to put in, when to do it and a good name brand.  Help please.

Thanks!

Gelatin is used post fermentation

[allenhuerta]

If nothing else, time will do you good.

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[majorvices]

I stopped using IM years ago. It helps drop out break material quickly from the boil. But other than that it doesn't seem to affect clarity as opposed to not using it. And my beers get as clear as I want them.

[apack76]

I stopped using IM years ago. It helps drop out break material quickly from the boil. But other than that it doesn't seem to affect clarity as opposed to not using it. And my beers get as clear as I want them.

Good to know.  I was thinking it was a necessity.  I'll have a backup using unflavored gelatin.   

[jeffy]

I stopped using IM years ago. It helps drop out break material quickly from the boil. But other than that it doesn't seem to affect clarity as opposed to not using it. And my beers get as clear as I want them.

Good to know.  I was thinking it was a necessity.  I'll have a backup using unflavored gelatin.   

Gelatin is not a substitute for Irish Moss.  IM is used in the boil and gelatin is used after fermentation is complete.  You'll  be "fine" with neither.

[BrewBama]

Do you bottle or keg?  I am not sure how to use gelatin in a bottle.



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[majorvices]

To be clear (no pun intended) German Brewers use neither gelatin post fermentation nor IrishMoss in the boil (if they want to stay reinheitsgebot compliant) and their beers turn out pretty darn clear -- course they may filter or centrifuge. As mentioned, gelatin isn't really a sub for IM they are used for two separate purposes. IM is a kettle fining and gelatin is a post fermentation fining. The best use for IM is to settle out hot break out of the beer. Arguably this is more important on all-grain than extract and if you hit you pH on AG you could argue it isn't important at all anyway.

If you do want to use the gelatin mix some up and pour it in the primary at the end of fermentation and gently swirl to disseminate and let it rest a few extra day (preferably cold).

Clarity is going to depend on a lot of factors and yeast choice will be one of the biggest factors. For instance, English yeasts will generally drop much more bright than German yeasts. But hazes can be issues as well. Usually hazes are flavorless.

I don't find a little haze a big detractor from a homebrew, personally.

[denny]

To be clear (no pun intended) German Brewers use neither gelatin post fermentation nor IrishMoss in the boil (if they want to stay reinheitsgebot compliant) and their beers turn out pretty darn clear -- course they may filter or centrifuge. As mentioned, gelatin isn't really a sub for IM they are used for two separate purposes. IM is a kettle fining and gelatin is a post fermentation fining. The best use for IM is to settle out hot break out of the beer. Arguably this is more important on all-grain than extract and if you hit you pH on AG you could argue it isn't important at all anyway.

If you do want to use the gelatin mix some up and pour it in the primary at the end of fermentation and gently swirl to disseminate and let it rest a few extra day (preferably cold).

Clarity is going to depend on a lot of factors and yeast choice will be one of the biggest factors. For instance, English yeasts will generally drop much more bright than German yeasts. But hazes can be issues as well. Usually hazes are flavorless.

I don't find a little haze a big detractor from a homebrew, personally.

In was under the impression that as long as something doesn't end up in the beer, it's Rgebot compliant.  Which means IM would be OK.  Is that not the case?

[Richard]

Do you bottle or keg?  I am not sure how to use gelatin in a bottle.
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When bottling the gelatin is added before cold crashing so it had done its work before the beer is transferred from the fermenter into the bottles.

[BrewBama]

Ah. Makes sense.



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[majorvices]

To be clear (no pun intended) German Brewers use neither gelatin post fermentation nor IrishMoss in the boil (if they want to stay reinheitsgebot compliant) and their beers turn out pretty darn clear -- course they may filter or centrifuge. As mentioned, gelatin isn't really a sub for IM they are used for two separate purposes. IM is a kettle fining and gelatin is a post fermentation fining. The best use for IM is to settle out hot break out of the beer. Arguably this is more important on all-grain than extract and if you hit you pH on AG you could argue it isn't important at all anyway.

If you do want to use the gelatin mix some up and pour it in the primary at the end of fermentation and gently swirl to disseminate and let it rest a few extra day (preferably cold).

Clarity is going to depend on a lot of factors and yeast choice will be one of the biggest factors. For instance, English yeasts will generally drop much more bright than German yeasts. But hazes can be issues as well. Usually hazes are flavorless.

I don't find a little haze a big detractor from a homebrew, personally.

In was under the impression that as long as something doesn't end up in the beer, it's Rgebot compliant.  Which means IM would be OK.  Is that not the case?

A quick search came up with this:

"The revised Vorläufiges Biergesetz (Provisional Beer Law) of 1993, which replaced the earlier regulations, is a slightly expanded version of the Reinheitsgebot, stipulating that only water, malted barley, hops and yeast be used for any bottom-fermented beer brewed in Germany. In addition, the law allows the use of powdered or ground hops and hop extracts, as well as stabilization and fining agents such as PVPP. Top-fermented beer is subject to the same rules, with the addition that a wider variety of malted grains can be used, as well as pure sugars for flavor and coloring."

So I don't know if that applied to IM or gelatin. I would think not with IM since if you use too much you can taste it. Gelatin certainly isn't vegan.

[narcout]

To be clear (no pun intended) German Brewers use neither gelatin post fermentation nor IrishMoss in the boil (if they want to stay reinheitsgebot compliant) and their beers turn out pretty darn clear -- course they may filter or centrifuge.

I am not knowledgeable about German brewing practices, but I do have a copy of Technology Brewing & Malting by Kunze, and he does specifically state that the use of silica sol preparations (what would be available to us as Biofine Clear or Silafine) to improve clarity and filterability of the beer is in accordance with the Reinheitsgebot.  And he goes on for several pages about how they are to be used.

I don't believe he specifically states that PVPP is Reinheitsgebot compliant, but it's heavily implied (and he does note in contrast that PVP, being water soluble, is not permitted).  He does spend a few pages discussing how it can be used for stabilization and binding of polyphenols.  Interestingly, it can be regenerated with a hot caustic wash and reused. 

There's a fair bit of info about filtering as well.  Check out the intensity of this flow chart: