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Author Topic: How Important is a Mash Out?  (Read 12727 times)

Offline denny

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Re: How Important is a Mash Out?
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2021, 02:17:13 pm »
I have a single vessel electric BIAB, so raising temps for my system is easy and quick, I feel like I get clearer wort going to the boil, so I employ a mash out.

Have you ever done a comparison with and without on the same recipe using the same bags of grain?
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Offline Cliffs

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Re: How Important is a Mash Out?
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2021, 02:35:05 pm »
I have a single vessel electric BIAB, so raising temps for my system is easy and quick, I feel like I get clearer wort going to the boil, so I employ a mash out.

Have you ever done a comparison with and without on the same recipe using the same bags of grain?

I dont have to capacity to do side by side type stuff like brulosophy, I just notice clearer wort when I recirc at 172 for 10 minutes. It very well could just be the longer recirc that does it, and have nothing to do with the temperature. Either way, part of what makes brewing easy for me is the familiarity with repeating the same process over and over again, so I keep doing it

Offline denny

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Re: How Important is a Mash Out?
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2021, 02:44:06 pm »
I have a single vessel electric BIAB, so raising temps for my system is easy and quick, I feel like I get clearer wort going to the boil, so I employ a mash out.

Have you ever done a comparison with and without on the same recipe using the same bags of grain?

I dont have to capacity to do side by side type stuff like brulosophy, I just notice clearer wort when I recirc at 172 for 10 minutes. It very well could just be the longer recirc that does it, and have nothing to do with the temperature. Either way, part of what makes brewing easy for me is the familiarity with repeating the same process over and over again, so I keep doing it

You can do back to back.  That's what I do in situations like that.
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Offline Cliffs

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Re: How Important is a Mash Out?
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2021, 02:47:42 pm »
I have a single vessel electric BIAB, so raising temps for my system is easy and quick, I feel like I get clearer wort going to the boil, so I employ a mash out.

Have you ever done a comparison with and without on the same recipe using the same bags of grain?

I dont have to capacity to do side by side type stuff like brulosophy, I just notice clearer wort when I recirc at 172 for 10 minutes. It very well could just be the longer recirc that does it, and have nothing to do with the temperature. Either way, part of what makes brewing easy for me is the familiarity with repeating the same process over and over again, so I keep doing it

You can do back to back.  That's what I do in situations like that.

maybe one day, but I also only have one fermenter with temp control.

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: How Important is a Mash Out?
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2021, 03:16:36 pm »
I have developed (deteriorated?) to a point of having little care about the clarity of the wort going into the boil - I am much more concerned with the beer clarity after primary fermentation and cold crashing/racking/serving.  I find that I do not have to fine beyond kettle additions of Brewtan B and Whirlfloc and I get very clear results with amber and pale beers.

I have found little to no correlation, let alone causative effects/speed to clearing between clear wort into the boil and clarity of finished beer.  Even so, clear wort is pretty to look at - no denying that.
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Offline Cliffs

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Re: How Important is a Mash Out?
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2021, 03:22:00 pm »
I have developed (deteriorated?) to a point of having little care about the clarity of the wort going into the boil - I am much more concerned with the beer clarity after primary fermentation and cold crashing/racking/serving.  I find that I do not have to fine beyond kettle additions of Brewtan B and Whirlfloc and I get very clear results with amber and pale beers.

I have found little to no correlation, let alone causative effects/speed to clearing between clear wort into the boil and clarity of finished beer.  Even so, clear wort is pretty to look at - no denying that.

tbh that's my biggest motivator to still do a mash out. I just like the way it looks

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: How Important is a Mash Out?
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2021, 03:29:49 pm »
I have developed (deteriorated?) to a point of having little care about the clarity of the wort going into the boil - I am much more concerned with the beer clarity after primary fermentation and cold crashing/racking/serving.  I find that I do not have to fine beyond kettle additions of Brewtan B and Whirlfloc and I get very clear results with amber and pale beers.

I have found little to no correlation, let alone causative effects/speed to clearing between clear wort into the boil and clarity of finished beer.  Even so, clear wort is pretty to look at - no denying that.

tbh that's my biggest motivator to still do a mash out. I just like the way it looks

Which is sufficient motivation as far as I am concerned - I do some things that are habits and some things that are by choice to switch things up and to see if it makes any difference.  Cheers to clarity by whatever means obtained. Good on ya'!
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Offline Homebrew_kev

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Re: How Important is a Mash Out?
« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2021, 08:04:05 pm »
The simple question is: How important is a mash out?

Most of my mash schedules include a mash out, but is it effective?  In order to do a mash out, I have to add additional water.  Now the water column increases which - I assume - compresses the grain bed.  So in that case, is a mash out really doing anything useful?

My impression, based on my system, is that it will wash out any left over sugars trapped by the grain bed. I have found that my beer has improved by sparging.

I like to gently stir the top of the mash bed while the sparge water is filtering in. I try to have at least 3 or 4 inches of sparge water on top of the mash bed, while it's slowly discharging out of the mash tun (try to match the flow rate)

There's a lot of variables to think about when getting concerned about a compressed mash bed - Crush of the grain, design of the mash tun. My only problems have been from using too much sparge water, because it dilutes the wort.

So, I'd say mash out is important - but a compressed mash bed isn't that important (unless it gets stuck)

also, having a pump is very handy, but you could feed it by gravity.

Offline goose

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Re: How Important is a Mash Out?
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2021, 07:58:21 am »
The simple question is: How important is a mash out?

Most of my mash schedules include a mash out, but is it effective?  In order to do a mash out, I have to add additional water.  Now the water column increases which - I assume - compresses the grain bed.  So in that case, is a mash out really doing anything useful?

My impression, based on my system, is that it will wash out any left over sugars trapped by the grain bed. I have found that my beer has improved by sparging.

I like to gently stir the top of the mash bed while the sparge water is filtering in. I try to have at least 3 or 4 inches of sparge water on top of the mash bed, while it's slowly discharging out of the mash tun (try to match the flow rate)

There's a lot of variables to think about when getting concerned about a compressed mash bed - Crush of the grain, design of the mash tun. My only problems have been from using too much sparge water, because it dilutes the wort.

So, I'd say mash out is important - but a compressed mash bed isn't that important (unless it gets stuck)

also, having a pump is very handy, but you could feed it by gravity.

A lot of interesting points about mash out vs no mash out.

I still do one because I feel it makes the wort a bit more easy to lauter IMHO.  I also knife the top couple inches of my grain bed withg the handle of my SS spoon several times while running off the wort rather than stirring the top like ynotbrusum does.  This was a trick I learned when I did my pro brewer gig.  Does it add a few more gravity points, I am not sure.  It is just part of my procedure during the brew day.

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Offline denny

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Re: How Important is a Mash Out?
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2021, 08:09:09 am »
The simple question is: How important is a mash out?

Most of my mash schedules include a mash out, but is it effective?  In order to do a mash out, I have to add additional water.  Now the water column increases which - I assume - compresses the grain bed.  So in that case, is a mash out really doing anything useful?

My impression, based on my system, is that it will wash out any left over sugars trapped by the grain bed. I have found that my beer has improved by sparging.

I like to gently stir the top of the mash bed while the sparge water is filtering in. I try to have at least 3 or 4 inches of sparge water on top of the mash bed, while it's slowly discharging out of the mash tun (try to match the flow rate)

There's a lot of variables to think about when getting concerned about a compressed mash bed - Crush of the grain, design of the mash tun. My only problems have been from using too much sparge water, because it dilutes the wort.

So, I'd say mash out is important - but a compressed mash bed isn't that important (unless it gets stuck)

also, having a pump is very handy, but you could feed it by gravity.

Maybe I'm missing something but none of that appears to have anything to do with mashout.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Homebrew_kev

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Re: How Important is a Mash Out?
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2021, 07:01:23 am »

Maybe I'm missing something but none of that appears to have anything to do with mashout.

yeah, an hour later i realized that i may have been talking about somthing different. I guess mash out isn't that important because I don't know what it is!  ;D

Offline majorvices

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Re: How Important is a Mash Out?
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2021, 08:12:06 am »

Maybe I'm missing something but none of that appears to have anything to do with mashout.

yeah, an hour later i realized that i may have been talking about somthing different. I guess mash out isn't that important because I don't know what it is!  ;D

We are talking about a step mash at 165F to denature enzymes. You appear to be talking about lautering.

Regarding higher efficiency w/ MO: FWIW I get a higher efficiency when I do what I guess is my version of a hochkurz mash. Could be the longer mash time or could be that different enzymes are targeted, which could be the same with a mashout.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2021, 08:14:56 am by majorvices »

Offline tommymorris

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How Important is a Mash Out?
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2021, 08:19:50 am »

Maybe I'm missing something but none of that appears to have anything to do with mashout.

yeah, an hour later i realized that i may have been talking about somthing different. I guess mash out isn't that important because I don't know what it is!  ;D
Mash out is the process of quickly raising the mash temperature high enough to denature the enzymes that convert starches to sugars. It stops that conversion process. In a production brewery where you want to reproduce the same beer ever batch a mash out is one way to help get predictable fermentability, i.e. the same Final Gravity (FG) every batch. In home brewing the enzymes get denatured when we raise the wort temperature to prepare to boil. We don’t necessarily care about a slight change in fermentability.

Offline denny

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Re: How Important is a Mash Out?
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2021, 08:39:43 am »

Maybe I'm missing something but none of that appears to have anything to do with mashout.

yeah, an hour later i realized that i may have been talking about somthing different. I guess mash out isn't that important because I don't know what it is!  ;D

We are talking about a step mash at 165F to denature enzymes. You appear to be talking about lautering.

Regarding higher efficiency w/ MO: FWIW I get a higher efficiency when I do what I guess is my version of a hochkurz mash. Could be the longer mash time or could be that different enzymes are targeted, which could be the same with a mashout.

I always thought you needed a higher temp than that to denature.  More on the order of 170.  Wrong?
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Offline majorvices

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Re: How Important is a Mash Out?
« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2021, 08:48:32 am »
165-170 is what  have always heard. But I stopped mashing out years ago so it doesn't matter to me