[ttash]

A question for the collective brain trust.

Anyone else noticing different mash pH when mashing a pale grist using American pale malt vs European pale malt?

All else being identical, when I mash a 100% pale malt grist using GW 2 row premium vs BestMalz Pilsner, I always get a lower pH reading. To get my pH in the proper range of 5.2 to 5.4 when using BM pils, I have to add acid or acid malt. But when mashing with GW 2 row, I don't need either to hit the proper pH.

So my question is, are American pale malts more acidic than European pale malts?

[BrewBama]

How much different? .1 or 1? (5.2 vs 5.3 or 5 vs 6)

It doesn’t surprise me that a Continental Pils malt and a Domestic Pale malt (“2-row”) have slightly different characteristics. They are different barley varieties produced by different malsters that may use different processes.

Not to mention there is different weather conditions that cause differences in these agricultural products.

It wouldn’t surprise me if one year’s Best Pils vs another year’s Best Pils would be slightly different given different growing conditions.



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[denny]

That's a very small sample size to try to draw a conclusion from.

[denny]

How much different? .1 or 1? (5.2 vs 5.3 or 5 vs 6)

It doesn’t surprise me that a Continental Pils malt and a Domestic Pale malt (“2-row”) have slightly different characteristics. They are different barley varieties produced by different malsters that may use different processes.

Not to mention there is different weather conditions that cause differences in these agricultural products.

It wouldn’t surprise me if one year’s Best Pils vs another year’s Best Pils would be slightly different given different growing conditions.



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Absolutely.  Just like hop AA varies from year to year and field to field.  With agricultural products there will always be variation.

[ttash]

How much different? .1 or 1? (5.2 vs 5.3 or 5 vs 6)

It doesn’t surprise me that a Continental Pils malt and a Domestic Pale malt (“2-row”) have slightly different characteristics. They are different barley varieties produced by different malsters that may use different processes.

Not to mention there is different weather conditions that cause differences in these agricultural products.

It wouldn’t surprise me if one year’s Best Pils vs another year’s Best Pils would be slightly different given different growing conditions.



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The difference I'm seeing is between .20 and .40
And this has been a consistent difference over several years.

[BrewBama]

I believe .3 +/-.1 (+/- 1.3 times more/less acidic) is an acceptable tolerance given the countless variables between the two malts.



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[BrewBama]

I dunno. I take a close enough is good enough approach to mash pH.

5.3 +/-.1 is fine in my brewery so these little differences don’t alert me.



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[ttash]

Thanks. I'm probably over-thinking it, which is fairly typical of me. 🍺

[Silver_Is_Money]

This is what Briess has to say:

We investigated numerous factors affecting titratable acidity of specialty malts including: production method, resulting malt color, barley variety and malting location.  Our study evaluated the relative importance of these factors and their relationship to mash pH for a variety of samples with the aim of giving brewers a better quantitative feel for the effect specific malt types can have on mash pH.  A strong relationship between mash pH and measured malt color was found. Barley variety and malting location showed a smaller and more variable effect.

Source:  https://www.brewingwithbriess.com/blog/specialty-malt-acidity/

[RC]

I'm probably over-thinking it

You wouldn't be the first homebrewer to do this.

[Cliffs]

A question for the collective brain trust.

Anyone else noticing different mash pH when mashing a pale grist using American pale malt vs European pale malt?

All else being identical, when I mash a 100% pale malt grist using GW 2 row premium vs BestMalz Pilsner, I always get a lower pH reading. To get my pH in the proper range of 5.2 to 5.4 when using BM pils, I have to add acid or acid malt. But when mashing with GW 2 row, I don't need either to hit the proper pH.

So my question is, are American pale malts more acidic than European pale malts?

darker malts=lower ph, I dont know off hand the srm of GW 2 row premium versus bestmalz pilsner, but I imagine the pale malt is kilned higher than the pils malt, as such it would result in a lower ph, all other things being equal

[ttash]

They're both kilned to the same approximate srm, around 1.7 to 2.0. My conclusion is that it's more related to barley variety, growing region, and malting process than anything else.

I was wondering if others had the same results with American vs European base malts.

[denny]

A question for the collective brain trust.

Anyone else noticing different mash pH when mashing a pale grist using American pale malt vs European pale malt?

All else being identical, when I mash a 100% pale malt grist using GW 2 row premium vs BestMalz Pilsner, I always get a lower pH reading. To get my pH in the proper range of 5.2 to 5.4 when using BM pils, I have to add acid or acid malt. But when mashing with GW 2 row, I don't need either to hit the proper pH.

So my question is, are American pale malts more acidic than European pale malts?

darker malts=lower ph, I dont know off hand the srm of GW 2 row premium versus bestmalz pilsner, but I imagine the pale malt is kilned higher than the pils malt, as such it would result in a lower ph, all other things being equal

Last time I used them GW was 2 and Best pils was 1.8.  Negligible.

[Cliffs]

They're both kilned to the same approximate srm, around 1.7 to 2.0. My conclusion is that it's more related to barley variety, growing region, and malting process than anything else.

I was wondering if others had the same results with American vs European base malts.

wow, now this is getting interesting. and a side by side color comparison, they look the same?

[ttash]

Side by side they look nearly identical. And yet the mash pH (without any acid adjustment) can be as different as 5.2 with American pale malt, and 5.6 with European pale malt.