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Author Topic: pure O2 tank accessories?  (Read 4121 times)

Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: pure O2 tank accessories?
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2021, 04:58:59 am »
what accessories do you guys use to attach to your oxygen tanks for wort oxygenation?

None! Not needed. A waste of money. We do not artificially put O2 in the wort.

lol, i wondered where you went dude? anything happen?

You mean, you wonder were "they" went. ;)

FWIW it's not a "waste of money". Just depends what you want to spend money on. I prefer using pure o2 because it is convenient and easy.

"We" have been busy, living the dream. Brewing / Smoking. My team / Bel Air Brewing has an O2 set up. Used it one time. Discovered that when you pitch a clean and healthy yeast slurry, artificial addition of oxygen is simply not required. This has been our experience.

And it was pointed out on this forum that very little O2 actually gets into the wort, with most of it simply bubbling to the surface and releasing into the atmosphere.

For less than ideal brewing situations, perhaps oxygen is needed. We always ensure the wort gets plenty of "splash O2" when going into the fermenter. This has worked for us quite well.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2021, 05:02:26 am by TXFlyGuy »

Offline majorvices

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Re: pure O2 tank accessories?
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2021, 07:19:21 am »
What do you have there? A pit stop crew or somethin'?  ;D ;)

Y'all should use what you want! There's nothing wrong with what you are doing. But it is wrong to say it is a "waste of money". I definitely notice a difference between batches that are properly aerated and those that aren't -- dry yeast excluded. But that doesn't mean that pure o2 is the only thing you should use. Pure o2 is a convenience, like a microwave is a convenience. You don't need a microwave but few people will call it a "waste of money".

If you use it properly the O2 does diffuse into solution. If you use it too fast it obviously won't. You want small bubbles that diffuse. If the bubbles are too big then the o2 are being wasted.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2021, 07:21:42 am by majorvices »

Offline erockrph

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Re: pure O2 tank accessories?
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2021, 08:18:32 am »
What do you have there? A pit stop crew or somethin'?  ;D ;)

Y'all should use what you want! There's nothing wrong with what you are doing. But it is wrong to say it is a "waste of money". I definitely notice a difference between batches that are properly aerated and those that aren't -- dry yeast excluded. But that doesn't mean that pure o2 is the only thing you should use. Pure o2 is a convenience, like a microwave is a convenience. You don't need a microwave but few people will call it a "waste of money".

If you use it properly the O2 does diffuse into solution. If you use it too fast it obviously won't. You want small bubbles that diffuse. If the bubbles are too big then the o2 are being wasted.
The reason that analogy doesn't quite hold up for me is that the alternative to a microwave is some other cooking method that takes much longer. For me, the alternative to using pure O2 is to do nothing. The splashing and swirling from draining my kettle into my fermentation keg provides sufficient oxygenation for 95% of my beers.

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Offline fredthecat

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Re: pure O2 tank accessories?
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2021, 09:01:19 am »
what accessories do you guys use to attach to your oxygen tanks for wort oxygenation?

None! Not needed. A waste of money. We do not artificially put O2 in the wort.

lol, i wondered where you went dude? anything happen?

Ha! Busy brewing and smoking. Did a Wagyu brisket...WOW! Maybe the best ever.

nice, my neighbour keeps reminding me about sous-vide stuff, it will be my next kitchen purchase. i just kept forgetting about it.

it could also fill in for some mashin preheating i think.




different yeasts have different oxygen requirements, and i was disappointed in a yeast's performance once despite making a significant starter.

anyway, just another thing to discuss here. i won't be brewing for a few months now likely.

Offline majorvices

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Re: pure O2 tank accessories?
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2021, 09:03:21 am »
To each his own. I just don't find it a "waste of money". I like the results I get and the ease of use and the added extra assurance. Of course, if you are using mostly dry yeast then, sure! No need! But if you are using liquid yeast or slurry the added benefit of pure o2 is convenient.

While I have not tested o2 injection in homebrew I have tested it in commercial brewing and it certainly injects o2 as is readable on an DO meter. In fact you can over saturate if the wort is cold and the o2 is run too long. That said, it is inline so it has less contact time. I am working in a brewery again now so I will attempt to get an o2 sample of a homebrew batch with pure o2 as opposed to shaking when it becomes convenient. I'll have to figure out the best method.

Offline Saccharomyces

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Re: pure O2 tank accessories?
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2021, 09:40:25 am »
To each his own. I just don't find it a "waste of money". I like the results I get and the ease of use and the added extra assurance. Of course, if you are using mostly dry yeast then, sure! No need! But if you are using liquid yeast or slurry the added benefit of pure o2 is convenient.

Very few of the yeast strains available via the home brewing trade benefit from using pure oxygen. Where pure oxygen shows its strength is with class O3 and O4 yeast strains (i.e., yeast strains whose oxygen demand cannot be met by air saturated wort).  We are talking about mostly Yorkshire-type yeast strains, but brewers have figured out how to use regular air aeration with these strains by spraying actively fermenting wort down onto itself using a fishtail spreader.  The problem with using a diffusion stone is keeping it clean and sanitary.  I used to boil my diffusion stone before I gave up on using it.  Cleaning sanitizing a venturi-based aerator is about as simple as it gets, which is why I went back to using one after playing with pure oxygen.

Offline majorvices

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Re: pure O2 tank accessories?
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2021, 10:03:46 am »
I'm not a microbiologist. Just a brewer. The logic I am going on is that you want 10 ppm of DO for ales and ~15 ppm for lagers. My understanding is that this helps the yeast strengthen cell walls since the glycogen reserves have been depleted in storage. I have been in the pro-brewery field for 10+ years now and I'm just getting back into the homebrewing scene again. If that information has changed then cool, that's not what most commercial breweries or homebrewers are basing their current practices on. The brewery I am working at now the head brewer is still aerating dry yeast. I told him it wasn't necessary but, hey. Old habits. (He'll listen to me eventually since I trained him originally, lol)

What I will say is that my brewing improved years ago when I started adding adequate aeration for yeast pitches. Compressed/filtered air made that process easier and less time consuming and using pure 02 made it even easier still.

Most likely I will continue to use that approach.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2021, 10:40:15 am by majorvices »

Offline fredthecat

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Re: pure O2 tank accessories?
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2021, 11:42:41 am »
To each his own. I just don't find it a "waste of money". I like the results I get and the ease of use and the added extra assurance. Of course, if you are using mostly dry yeast then, sure! No need! But if you are using liquid yeast or slurry the added benefit of pure o2 is convenient.

Very few of the yeast strains available via the home brewing trade benefit from using pure oxygen. Where pure oxygen shows its strength is with class O3 and O4 yeast strains (i.e., yeast strains whose oxygen demand cannot be met by air saturated wort).  We are talking about mostly Yorkshire-type yeast strains, but brewers have figured out how to use regular air aeration with these strains by spraying actively fermenting wort down onto itself using a fishtail spreader.  The problem with using a diffusion stone is keeping it clean and sanitary.  I used to boil my diffusion stone before I gave up on using it.  Cleaning sanitizing a venturi-based aerator is about as simple as it gets, which is why I went back to using one after playing with pure oxygen.

i don't brew during the summer, but come fall i believe i will try this venturi method of oxygenation.

just truth be told my wort chiller is homemade, and i am usually too lazy to chill my wort under ~45-50C, and just figure that is cool enough to let it cool by itself in the sealed carboy overnight. so i might do a long-time planned upgrade to my wort chiller to allow it to cool it down before using this. in any case it saves me from spending ~75-100 dollars on an o2 tank and oxygen diffuser.


Offline denny

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Re: pure O2 tank accessories?
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2021, 12:27:10 pm »
I used a venturi for years, then switched to an O2 system.  I didn't notice much difference with either compared to just pumping or dumping wort into fermenter.  Got rid of both of them.
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Offline narcout

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Re: pure O2 tank accessories?
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2021, 12:58:22 pm »
I am working in a brewery again now so I will attempt to get an o2 sample of a homebrew batch with pure o2 as opposed to shaking when it becomes convenient.

The guys over at the low oxygen forum have done a bunch of measurements with pure O2 and a DO meter.  It definitely works.  But I'm sure other methods work just fine too.

The problem with using a diffusion stone is keeping it clean and sanitary.  I used to boil my diffusion stone before I gave up on using it.

Yeah, I boil mine for 10 minutes before every use.  I don't know if it's really necessary, but it does the trick.

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Offline majorvices

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Re: pure O2 tank accessories?
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2021, 01:05:35 pm »
To sani mine I bring a pint of water to a boil, turn off the heat and soak the stone while I prepare. Then I sanitize soak everything. I aerate, and hot soak it again. Occasionally I may boil the whole thing. I store the entire contraption in a gallon ziplock bag once it is dry. Super simple and never has it been a problem.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2021, 01:34:26 pm by majorvices »

Offline Homebrew_kev

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Re: pure O2 tank accessories?
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2021, 08:11:22 pm »
I started using the Blichmann In Line Oxygenation Kit a few brews ago, and I'm very happy with it....

https://shop.greatfermentations.com/product/blichmann-in-line-oxygenation-kit/blichmann-engineering-equipment

I used the wand oxygenator, and it was useful - but I think the in line kit is more effective. I feel that more of the wort comes in contact with the stone, and more O2 is absorbed - or at least more evenly distobuted though the fermentor.

Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: pure O2 tank accessories?
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2021, 08:49:55 pm »
I'm not a microbiologist. Just a brewer. The logic I am going on is that you want 10 ppm of DO for ales and ~15 ppm for lagers. My understanding is that this helps the yeast strengthen cell walls since the glycogen reserves have been depleted in storage. I have been in the pro-brewery field for 10+ years now and I'm just getting back into the homebrewing scene again. If that information has changed then cool, that's not what most commercial breweries or homebrewers are basing their current practices on. The brewery I am working at now the head brewer is still aerating dry yeast. I told him it wasn't necessary but, hey. Old habits. (He'll listen to me eventually since I trained him originally, lol)

What I will say is that my brewing improved years ago when I started adding adequate aeration for yeast pitches. Compressed/filtered air made that process easier and less time consuming and using pure 02 made it even easier still.

Most likely I will continue to use that approach.
I agree with you on this one.

I used Venturi tube in commercial brewing for years. I triple batched and I did not have problem at all. As a matter of fact I did 65 generations on the same yeast.

Then I bought a new brewhouse and I only single batch to the fermenter. After some time my yeast just got tired and died. I could not even do 5-6 generations.

Finally I bought inline oxygenation stone. I have Blickmen oxygen regulator and pretty much fallow dosing instructions (1 liter/min oxygen for 10 gallons/min wort) now all is good again.

As far as keeping stone clean. When I do not brew, it lives its life in caustic solution. On brew day after good rinse it spends a couple of hours in sanitizer.

So there you go. It depends on your equipment and process.
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Offline majorvices

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Re: pure O2 tank accessories?
« Reply #28 on: June 18, 2021, 07:22:47 am »
I started using the Blichmann In Line Oxygenation Kit a few brews ago, and I'm very happy with it....

https://shop.greatfermentations.com/product/blichmann-in-line-oxygenation-kit/blichmann-engineering-equipment

I used the wand oxygenator, and it was useful - but I think the in line kit is more effective. I feel that more of the wort comes in contact with the stone, and more O2 is absorbed - or at least more evenly distobuted though the fermentor.

In line is definitely the way to go but you have to have the wort cool enough for it to be effective. For homebrew my wort very often not cool when I am racking to the fermenter and it takes several hours until it is cool enough to aerate and pitch yeast. So inline wouldn't work.

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: pure O2 tank accessories?
« Reply #29 on: June 18, 2021, 08:37:59 am »
Major - are you saying that the wort must be chilled to pitch temperature to adequately absorb oxygen into the liquid through inline injection, for however transitory that may be?  If so, could lagers be racked at ale temps and oxygenated inline to the fermenter, then allowed to cool down to fermentation temps without concern about oxygen remaining sufficient?  Just wondering about the dynamics here - does the oxygen stay in the wort as it cools to its ultimate fermentation temp or is it "driven out" by the cooling process or absorbed by the yeast scavenging or both?

I have been using a wine de-gassing stirrer for batches that are re-pitches and liquid pitches - it gets pretty frothy and the yeast seem to make fast work of absorption/uptake.  My last lager was re-pitched into 64F wort (as cool as I could get it by immersion chilling in 90F+ ambient temps last Saturday).  It was racing within 4 hours and fermented at 58F for five days and completed well attenuated (1.040 to 1.005)...I can't imagine that it "needed" O2 by inline injection, but I have a stone that I haven't used in a few years, because the wine whip seems adequate (all my beers are pretty low OG, though).  I may just revisit O2 injection.
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