[pete b]

Saw this on another site, thought I’d share:





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Interesting, I was wondering about using some monk fruit I have in liquid form in a beer. I would definitely not want too much.
BTW I told my wife that if I am reducing my calorie intake by 100 calories when I drink a beer then I am doing even better to have 5 beers and reducing by 500 calories.

[Iliff Ave]

That's a super tasty beer for what it is. Had no idea it was that low in carbs and calories.

[BrewBama]

The goal for my upcoming low calorie/carb beers:

That's a super tasty beer for what it is. Had no idea it was that low in carbs and calories.

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[pete b]

I notice in the recipe that Brewbama posted the enzyme is added both in the mash and in the fermenter. Anyone know the reasoning? Does it convert different starches at different temps?

[RC]

I notice in the recipe that Brewbama posted the enzyme is added both in the mash and in the fermenter. Anyone know the reasoning? Does it convert different starches at different temps?

I'm pretty sure it's just to achieve maximum break down of the more complex starches/dextrins, beyond what just a mash or fermenter addition alone could do. The activity of this enzyme does not depend on temp except for the usual dynamics involving reaction rates and temp, up to when it gets denatured (IIRC that's about ~140 F).

[Mardoo]

Regarding low FG, doesn’t saison yeast get the FG way down?

Likely any diastaticus yeast would get the FG lower. Fortunately saison adds flavour, whereas the wild diastaticus yeasts often degrade it. I haven’t tried any of the recent commercial diastaticus yeasts.

[pete b]

I notice in the recipe that Brewbama posted the enzyme is added both in the mash and in the fermenter. Anyone know the reasoning? Does it convert different starches at different temps?

I'm pretty sure it's just to achieve maximum break down of the more complex starches/dextrins, beyond what just a mash or fermenter addition alone could do. The activity of this enzyme does not depend on temp except for the usual dynamics involving reaction rates and temp, up to when it gets denatured (IIRC that's about ~140 F).

Thanks. I did just a fermenter addition, I will try both next time.

[pete b]

Regarding low FG, doesn’t saison yeast get the FG way down?

Likely any diastaticus yeast would get the FG lower. Fortunately saison adds flavour, whereas the wild diastaticus yeasts often degrade it. I haven’t tried any of the recent commercial diastaticus yeasts.

I plan on doing a light saison this summer, but first I am going to make a euro lager and another ipa using “regular “ yeast and enzymes. I do want to try some Brett at some point as a secondary yeast.

[hopfenundmalz]

I'm interested in this thread because I'm trying to/needing to reduce my alcohol consumption. I'm more interested in low-ABV beers than low-carb beers per se, but they often go hand in hand. The problem is that since alcohol itself contributes an important flavor component to a beer, low-ABV beers taste watery and insipid to me, no matter how dressed up they are with hops or whatever. It calls for a complete re-calibration of my palate.

The exception is American/International pale lagers and light lagers, which I really enjoy and brew a lot of. My latest sits at 4.4% ABV and while it's delicious, I think that going lower will make it bland and flavorless. But I'll try. I simply make a more concentrated wort and then, pre-boil, dilute with water to hit my target OG. It waters down the beer but it works for these styles.

It seems to me that the focus should be on reducing ABV rather than carbs per se, given that gram for gram, alcohol has nearly twice the calorie content of a carbohydrate. Thus, using a diastaticus strain or glucoamylase enzyme would reduce carbs, but wouldn't it increase ABV and thus calories?

I used to travel to Utah on business in the mid-90s. Beers then were capped at 3.2% ABV by law. And yet the beers were really full and tasty. To achieve this, however, breweries used a LOT of crystal malts to beef up the beers. It's a reasonable strategy as long as you're aware of a potential side-effect: gastrointestinal distress from unfermentable carbs that ultimately get broken down in the small intestine.

I had to look this up just now, but that old Utah law of 3.2% was alcohol by weight, which is 4% ABV

Yes, the draft beers were at 4.0% ABV when I was frequenting Utah (you could get stronger packaged beers from the State Store).

Recently I was surprised to find that the law was changed in Nov. 2019 to allow the sale of 5.0% ABV beers.

https://www.visitutah.com/articles/utahs-liquor-laws-and-breweries

[BrewBama]

..
It seems to me that the focus should be on reducing ABV rather than carbs per se, given that gram for gram, alcohol has nearly twice the calorie content of a carbohydrate. Thus, using a diastaticus strain or glucoamylase enzyme would reduce carbs, but wouldn't it increase ABV and thus calories?

..

This is a good point. One I had not considered. The calculator I use to determine calories/carbs uses OG and FG to spit out those numbers. http://www.mrgoodbeer.com/carb-cal.shtml

If I take an all malt recipe for a Porter:

OG 1.040
FG 1.009 (predicted by BS)

80% Pale
7% Brown
8% C75
5% Chocolate

...with S-04 yeast I get:

Cal 131.5
Carb 12.9
ABV 4.1%

...and then add 1 lb demerara sugar or invert No1, I get:

OG 1.049
FG 1.007 (predicted by BS)
Cal 159.4
Carb 12.8
ABV 5.5%

Basically, a higher alcohol, higher calorie beer with about the same carbs.



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[erockrph]

..
It seems to me that the focus should be on reducing ABV rather than carbs per se, given that gram for gram, alcohol has nearly twice the calorie content of a carbohydrate. Thus, using a diastaticus strain or glucoamylase enzyme would reduce carbs, but wouldn't it increase ABV and thus calories?

..

This is a good point. One I had not considered. The calculator I use to determine calories/carbs uses OG and FG to spit out those numbers. http://www.mrgoodbeer.com/carb-cal.shtml

If I take an all malt recipe for a Porter:

OG 1.040
FG 1.009 (predicted by BS)

80% Pale
7% Brown
8% C75
5% Chocolate

...with S-04 yeast I get:

Cal 131.5
Carb 12.9
ABV 4.1%

...and add 1 lb demerara sugar or invert No1, I get:

OG 1.049
FG 1.007 (predicted by BS)
Cal 159.4
Carb 12.8
ABV 5.5%

Basically, a higher alcohol, higher calorie beer with about the same carbs.



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Your example shows that if you increase the OG, you end up with more calories. But if you start with the same OG, but lower the FG by using enzymes or a diastaticus strain, you end up with higher ABV, lower carbs and lower calories. Even though alcohol has a higher per-gram calorie content than sugar, fermentation 100 grams of sugar leads to about 50 grams of alcohol. The rest is blown off as CO2.

Using the Mr Goodbeer calculator shows this. Using 1.040 as the OG and FG (i.e., no alcohol, only sugar) gives a result of:

146.1 calories
36.5 g of carbs
0% ABV

At the same OG, but an FG of 0.992 (approximately full attenuation) you get:

123.9 calories
0 g of carbs
6.4% ABV

If the calorie calculator is correct, then the fully attenuated beer has 15% fewer calories than the unattenuated beer. So even though alcohol has more calories gram-per-gram compared to carbs, in a fermented product you end up with less calories post-fermentation.

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[Iliff Ave]

I'm interested. Let's get some recipes rolling. Anyone got something in the session lager direction?

[BrewBama]

Good point Erockrph. I may look at enzymes vs dia. strain because I don’t brew many Belgian beers. Is there a list of dia. strains? ...other than Belgian strains?

I'm interested. Let's get some recipes rolling. Anyone got something in the session lager direction?

I am planning a Czech-style Pale Lager for my next brew (post #3).  “This is the most consumed type of beer in the Czech Republic at present. Style Comparison: A lighter-bodied, lower-intensity, refreshing, everyday version of Czech Premium Pale Lager.” “Flavorful and refreshing” — BJCP guide



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[ynotbrusum]

I have made a few Lichtbiers lately and won a gold at a local comp this spring for one - it was a session Helles, IIRC, and I called it "Chasing the Unicorn".  I told my friends that my motto for my light beers is "You can chase a buzz, but you can't catch it."  Not totally true, I suppose, but you will fill up before you get much of a buzz.

I think this was it (raw info copied from Brewer's Friend - sorry for the lack of formatting mashed (75') and boiled (60') in my Anvil Foundry):

1.034
1.006
3.68%
20.56
2.85
5.23
n/a
  Fermentables
Amount   Fermentable   Cost   PPG   °L   Bill %
7 lb    Bestmalz - BEST Pilsen      37   1.9   96.6%
0.25 lb    Weyermann - Acidulated      27   3.4   3.4%
7.25 lb / $ 0.00
  Hops
Amount   Variety   Cost   Type   AA   Use   Time   IBU   Bill %
0.75 oz   Yakima Chief Hops - German Magnum      Pellet   13.5   First Wort   75 min   15.04   42.9%
1 oz   Hallertau Mittelfruh      Pellet   3.75   Boil   10 min   5.52   57.1%
1.75 oz / $ 0.00
  Mash Guidelines
Amount   Description   Type   Temp   Time
7.5 gal   strike at 158   Infusion   150 °F   --
  Other Ingredients
Amount   Name   Cost   Type   Use   Time
0.50 g   Brewtan B      Fining   Mash   75 min.
3 g   Calcium Chloride (anhydrous)      Water Agt   Mash   75 min.
3 g   Gypsum      Water Agt   Mash   75 min.
  Yeast
Fermentis - Saflager - German Lager Yeast W-34/70
Amount:
1 Each   
Cost:
Attenuation (avg):
83%   
Flocculation:
High
Optimum Temp:
48 - 72 °F   
Starter:
Yes
Fermentation Temp:
52 °F   
Pitch Rate:
0.35 (M cells / ml / ° P) 62 B cells required
$ 0.00Yeast Pitch Rate and Starter Calculator
Priming
CO2 Level: 2.45 Volumes
  Target Water Profile BrewRO Reverse Osmosis
Ca+2   Mg+2   Na+   Cl-   SO4-2   HCO3-
62.8   0   7   68.5   60   18

[erockrph]

1957 Whitbread IPA has been mentioned already, but here's a link to the recipe. This one is what I consider my ultimate session beer:

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2016/02/lets-brew-wednesday-1957-whitbread-ipa.html

117 calories and 10g of carbs per 12oz as written. My only problem is that I'm often drinking this one by the liter.


I also think a low gravity saison using Belle/3711 would be a great choice for this style. It has plenty of body and a touch of acidity to make up for the lower gravity, and will end up with very low carbs. It also takes fruit well, which might be a nice addition to a smaller beer.

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