Author Topic: I'm prepared to take some static for this but hear me out...  (Read 2594 times)

Offline Wilbur

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Re: I'm prepared to take some static for this but hear me out...
« Reply #60 on: May 25, 2021, 09:48:26 am »
According to its website:

“How many yeast cells are in your homebrew packs?
Through our proprietary process, we generate the optimal number of yeast cells, which varies from strain from strain, to yield the best and most consistent performance for each.

As a result of genetic differences, we have observed strain to strain variation in cell counts even under identical growth conditions. Certain strains may contain up to 500 billion cells per pack while other strains may contain slightly less than 150 billion cells per pack.

Most importantly, all packs contain the optimal number of viable yeast cells to ferment 5 gallons of wort up to 1.060 OG at the time of packaging.

The number of cells in the pack do not define the success of the brew.”

I brew low ABV beers, so the liquid yeast, if fresh, usually doesn’t require a starter, but that’s because an ABV beer of under 4% or so will be generally well served by the yeast package as they sell it. YMMV, of course.

You're talking about Omega? My club had Mark Schwarz give a talk last fall, really great presentation. One experiment they ran compared 3 or 4 yeasts propagated under similar conditions. At the end, they all had different cell counts but similar biomass suggesting that cell size/density varied. He mentioned some commercial brewers started doing cell counts for some of their strains and having low cell counts, despite getting very good results, and pointed to this as a culprit. I'm sure I'm butchering the explanation, but it encouraged me never to waste time with cell counts.

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: I'm prepared to take some static for this but hear me out...
« Reply #61 on: May 25, 2021, 10:16:21 am »
Back a few years, we had Lance Shaner present to our club at a brewery get together - like you say, very informative.  Omega was new then and had limited strain availability; now they offer a pretty wide variety and have several innovative strains that seem quite popular.  It is great to see their successes and as a homebrewer in the far west Chicagoland area, my LHBS gets its deliveries as fresh as can be - almost like living in the PNW or East Coast!
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Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: I'm prepared to take some static for this but hear me out...
« Reply #62 on: May 25, 2021, 10:22:38 am »
Back a few years, we had Lance Shaner present to our club at a brewery get together - like you say, very informative.  Omega was new then and had limited strain availability; now they offer a pretty wide variety and have several innovative strains that seem quite popular.  It is great to see their successes and as a homebrewer in the far west Chicagoland area, my LHBS gets its deliveries as fresh as can be - almost like living in the PNW or East Coast!
I do really like Omega especially for the Bayern strain.  Wyeast released it as 2352 Munich Lager 2 but it was in limited release.  Now they have 113 which is [supposedly] the same as White Labs 940 which also used to be a limited release strain but is now year-round.  I can't get anything from White Labs locally.  None of the 4-5 LHBS in my area carry it, AFAIK.  But the closest LHBS does carry Wyeast and also Omega so I am a fan of theirs for sure. 
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline Cliffs

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Re: I'm prepared to take some static for this but hear me out...
« Reply #63 on: May 25, 2021, 10:33:53 am »
According to its website:

“How many yeast cells are in your homebrew packs?
Through our proprietary process, we generate the optimal number of yeast cells, which varies from strain from strain, to yield the best and most consistent performance for each.

As a result of genetic differences, we have observed strain to strain variation in cell counts even under identical growth conditions. Certain strains may contain up to 500 billion cells per pack while other strains may contain slightly less than 150 billion cells per pack.

Most importantly, all packs contain the optimal number of viable yeast cells to ferment 5 gallons of wort up to 1.060 OG at the time of packaging.

The number of cells in the pack do not define the success of the brew.”

I brew low ABV beers, so the liquid yeast, if fresh, usually doesn’t require a starter, but that’s because an ABV beer of under 4% or so will be generally well served by the yeast package as they sell it. YMMV, of course.

You're talking about Omega? My club had Mark Schwarz give a talk last fall, really great presentation. One experiment they ran compared 3 or 4 yeasts propagated under similar conditions. At the end, they all had different cell counts but similar biomass suggesting that cell size/density varied. He mentioned some commercial brewers started doing cell counts for some of their strains and having low cell counts, despite getting very good results, and pointed to this as a culprit. I'm sure I'm butchering the explanation, but it encouraged me never to waste time with cell counts.

in the end, a better way to look at yeast propagation is trading carbohydrates for biomass. I know its repeated alot on here, but we really do (myself included) get hung up on numbers and not actual performance.

Offline Cliffs

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Re: I'm prepared to take some static for this but hear me out...
« Reply #64 on: May 25, 2021, 10:36:18 am »
Back a few years, we had Lance Shaner present to our club at a brewery get together - like you say, very informative.  Omega was new then and had limited strain availability; now they offer a pretty wide variety and have several innovative strains that seem quite popular.  It is great to see their successes and as a homebrewer in the far west Chicagoland area, my LHBS gets its deliveries as fresh as can be - almost like living in the PNW or East Coast!
I do really like Omega especially for the Bayern strain.  Wyeast released it as 2352 Munich Lager 2 but it was in limited release.  Now they have 113 which is [supposedly] the same as White Labs 940 which also used to be a limited release strain but is now year-round.  I can't get anything from White Labs locally.  None of the 4-5 LHBS in my area carry it, AFAIK.  But the closest LHBS does carry Wyeast and also Omega so I am a fan of theirs for sure.

while not a lager strain, their Jovaru strain does not get the love it deserves. It's a very versatile yeast that gets pigeonholed into being "farmhouse" when in fact it makes an amazing pale ale, IPA, cream ale etc.

Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: I'm prepared to take some static for this but hear me out...
« Reply #65 on: May 25, 2021, 11:10:18 am »
Back a few years, we had Lance Shaner present to our club at a brewery get together - like you say, very informative.  Omega was new then and had limited strain availability; now they offer a pretty wide variety and have several innovative strains that seem quite popular.  It is great to see their successes and as a homebrewer in the far west Chicagoland area, my LHBS gets its deliveries as fresh as can be - almost like living in the PNW or East Coast!
I do really like Omega especially for the Bayern strain.  Wyeast released it as 2352 Munich Lager 2 but it was in limited release.  Now they have 113 which is [supposedly] the same as White Labs 940 which also used to be a limited release strain but is now year-round.  I can't get anything from White Labs locally.  None of the 4-5 LHBS in my area carry it, AFAIK.  But the closest LHBS does carry Wyeast and also Omega so I am a fan of theirs for sure.

while not a lager strain, their Jovaru strain does not get the love it deserves. It's a very versatile yeast that gets pigeonholed into being "farmhouse" when in fact it makes an amazing pale ale, IPA, cream ale etc.
Does it have any of the "Farmhouse" qualities?  When I say that word I am referring to what I mentioned in the Belgian thread... barnyard, horseblanket, complex, phenolic, etc.  I have had suggestions from people who tell me this or that strain is "neutral" so I order it and brew something with it and it's far from neutral.  So I don't do that anymore.  Instead I need to taste a commercial example or a homebrewed example so I can taste the character of the yeast myself. 
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline Cliffs

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Re: I'm prepared to take some static for this but hear me out...
« Reply #66 on: May 25, 2021, 11:59:57 am »
Back a few years, we had Lance Shaner present to our club at a brewery get together - like you say, very informative.  Omega was new then and had limited strain availability; now they offer a pretty wide variety and have several innovative strains that seem quite popular.  It is great to see their successes and as a homebrewer in the far west Chicagoland area, my LHBS gets its deliveries as fresh as can be - almost like living in the PNW or East Coast!
I do really like Omega especially for the Bayern strain.  Wyeast released it as 2352 Munich Lager 2 but it was in limited release.  Now they have 113 which is [supposedly] the same as White Labs 940 which also used to be a limited release strain but is now year-round.  I can't get anything from White Labs locally.  None of the 4-5 LHBS in my area carry it, AFAIK.  But the closest LHBS does carry Wyeast and also Omega so I am a fan of theirs for sure.

while not a lager strain, their Jovaru strain does not get the love it deserves. It's a very versatile yeast that gets pigeonholed into being "farmhouse" when in fact it makes an amazing pale ale, IPA, cream ale etc.
Does it have any of the "Farmhouse" qualities?  When I say that word I am referring to what I mentioned in the Belgian thread... barnyard, horseblanket, complex, phenolic, etc.  I have had suggestions from people who tell me this or that strain is "neutral" so I order it and brew something with it and it's far from neutral.  So I don't do that anymore.  Instead I need to taste a commercial example or a homebrewed example so I can taste the character of the yeast myself.

the phenols are incredibly mild, it has a mild citrus character, and leaves a remarkable mouthfeel despite extraordinary attenuation

Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: I'm prepared to take some static for this but hear me out...
« Reply #67 on: May 25, 2021, 12:48:49 pm »
the phenols are incredibly mild...
This frightens me.  :D 
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline erockrph

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Re: I'm prepared to take some static for this but hear me out...
« Reply #68 on: May 25, 2021, 02:11:41 pm »
the phenols are incredibly mild...
This frightens me.  :D
Mild phenolics does not equal clean fermentation in my mind.

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Offline denny

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Re: I'm prepared to take some static for this but hear me out...
« Reply #69 on: May 25, 2021, 04:12:06 pm »
the phenols are incredibly mild...
This frightens me.  :D
Mild phenolics does not equal clean fermentation in my mind.

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Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline Saccharomyces

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Re: I'm prepared to take some static for this but hear me out...
« Reply #70 on: May 25, 2021, 05:57:51 pm »
Imagine how easier things would be if yeast labs would just give us larger amounts of yeast to pitch. I'd gladly pay a few bucks more to have a larger pitch from the get go

For the most part, they all ready are packaging enough cells to pitch up to six U.S. gallons of 1.060 wort.  There is huge difference between a liquid yeast of 1991 and a liquid yeast culture of 2021.

Offline Saccharomyces

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Re: I'm prepared to take some static for this but hear me out...
« Reply #71 on: May 25, 2021, 06:19:08 pm »
I'll have to go check him out, if Steve Vai is giving him that level of praise. I've seen Vai play on a few of the G3 and other similar tours. Even compared to the other virtuoso guitarists on those tours, his technique, musicality, and improvisational skills are in another league. He literally played circles around Yngwie Malmsteen. Plus, he seems like a genuinely nice dude. I guess years of playing for Zappa will do that for you.

Johnny is more of a chord melody than single note player.  Yngwie deserves credit for infusing classical music into hard rock.  Granted Ritchie Blackmore and Uli Jon Roth preceded him, but they did not have the old school metal edge. The whole Shrapnel Records thing brought us slew of guitar shredders. One of guitarists that is still alive and well today is Richie Kotzen.  He fused blue-eyed soul with neoclassical fusion. \

https://youtu.be/nLm_wdXA3os