[erockrph]

It's not doubt CSA is more important. Because you will NEVER see the benefits of one without the other. You will only ever see the effects of HSA, if there is no CSA.
Malt and Hop antioxidants (flavor positive), can only be there if the beer is not oxidized, since thats how antioxidants work.

As I said is no doubt packaging proficiency is utmost and work back from there. The easiest way is to take a pale ale/ipa, package it, if you do not see ANY hop fade/flavor change during the ENTIRE life of it, thats a good start. Hop fade and flavor change IS oxidation.

Since we are on the Bamforth train...Excerpts from his "Freshness" (2017) book.

Thanks for sharing this - lots of cool food for thought here, including some factors that I either wasn't aware of or haven't considered.

Re: inactivation of LOX at saccharification temps - if this is the case, wouldn't mashing in warmer to ensure rapid denaturation of LOX address most of the concerns we have? I see 65C(149F) given as the denaturation temp for malt LOX, so if we target a mash-in temp in the low or mid 150s, wouldn't that inactivate LOX before it can create problems?

The other point I didn't realize was that dry hops can potentially add divalent metal cations. A) I wonder is this is why I get a metallic character from some hop varieties, and B) I wonder if adding BTB along with dry hop additions would be beneficial.

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[BrewBama]

Whats funny/Ironic is that SN Does most if not all the things on the hot side he doesn't bold.

Wet mill with deoxgenated water? Check
Use a Pre-masher? Check
Mash with deoxgenated water? Check

Anywho.

Not surprising. They must allow individual thought at SN.  He consistently praises Ken Grossman and the Sierra Nevada breweries and their products.

Maybe you should cite SN practices vs Dr Bamforth’s writings to support your position.

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Not sure why the snippyness? Perhaps I am reading this wrong?

But I seem to be the only one who HAS to support my position, which is interesting.

It wasn’t meant to be snippy. I apologize if it came across that way.

All I am saying is you’re using folks that don’t seem to support your position given statements they’ve made in writing or interviews as strongly as SN’s practices would. Maybe you should use SN practices vs Dr Bamforth’s wrings to support your position.

I absolutely don’t believe you are the only one who has to support your position at all. I supported mine with quotes from several sources but you didn’t accept them.  I’ve even agreed with you but you don’t accept it either. So… I think we’re at an impasse.



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[hmbrw4life]

Whats funny/Ironic is that SN Does most if not all the things on the hot side he doesn't bold.

Wet mill with deoxgenated water? Check
Use a Pre-masher? Check
Mash with deoxgenated water? Check

Anywho.

Not surprising. They must allow individual thought at SN.  He consistently praises Ken Grossman and the Sierra Nevada breweries and their products.

Maybe you should cite SN practices vs Dr Bamforth’s writings to support your position.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Not sure why the snippyness? Perhaps I am reading this wrong?

But I seem to be the only one who HAS to support my position, which is interesting.

It wasn’t meant to be snippy. I apologize if it came across that way.

All I am saying is you’re using folks that don’t seem to support your position given statements they’ve made in writing or interviews as strongly as SN’s practices would. Maybe you should use SN practices vs Dr Bamforth’s wrings to support your position.

I absolutely don’t believe you are the only one who has to support your position at all. I supported mine with quotes from several sources but you didn’t accept them.  I’ve even agreed with you but you don’t accept it either. So… I think we’re at an impasse.



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Now wait here, you brought up Bamforth, it's your citing of his words (and subsequent clarification) that was the start of all the bamforth talk.
Never did I once reject your sources, only offered a forrest instead of a tree of reasoning. I even showed some excerpts from his book, that corroborated with you.
The individual thought comment, as well is confusing. You think the senior QA advisor doesn't have some say in beer production?

We are only at an impasse because you think we at odds. I have kept everything I have said pretty inert(pun intended).

[hopfenundmalz]

Thanks for the reference. I see no inconsistency between what’s listed in bold which are his “primary concerns” and his past comments. …even from his article published this month. The text that is italicized is a “secondary concern” and normal text is of “less concern” and may (his emphasis) help.



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Whats funny/Ironic is that SN Does most if not all the things on the hot side he doesn't bold.

Wet mill with deoxgenated water? Check
Use a Pre-masher? Check
Mash with deoxgenated water? Check

Anywho.

They have N2 supplied to the wet mill.

All of the brewing water in the brewery is Deoxygenated.