[denny]

I've brewed a lot of Kölsch and never had a phenolic one. BUT -- I never tried the LalBrew Köln strain (even though I have had a sachet for over a year I've been planning to try.)

I detect phenols from WY2565,  but not in a bad way.

[RC]

If you don't use a water filter what do you use? Bottled? Capden Tablets?

Tap water. I can hit most profiles with gypsum, CaCl, and lactic acid. Never had a problem in 12 years. Water in the denver area is apparently pretty good for brewing. That said, it's time to send another sample to Ward.

Won’t chlorine evaporate out of the water on its own during heating? Chloramine is more problematic and needs Campden. My water has Chlorine not chloramine. But I use Campden anyway. Just in case.

Yes, chlorine will gas off during heating to strike or sparge temp. Not only that, but if your municipality uses bleach as the disinfectant, as mine does, the bleach will fully decompose, and again the chorine will gas off. Totally chlorine-free water without filtering.

For some on this forum, these facts are very controversial and amount to heresy, but it's extremely easy to test, and I don't understand why the skeptics don't just do that before chiming in on how wrong I am. Chloramine is a totally different story.

[nateo]

Long story short, use some kind of metabisulphite. I use K meta.

One of the problems with water on the front range is the mix of surface water and aquifer water varies day to day and season to season. I've noticed the chlorine/chloramine level varies too. Also depending on where you are specifically in the metro could affect it. Boulder county used to have a ton of beautiful snow melt water but I don't think those sources have been adequate in decades.

I remember a lot of chlorophenols back in the heyday of the craft gold rush when everyone with a bucket, a dream and a hundred grand was opening a new brewery in town.

[dmtaylor]

If you're using city water, you've got chlorine.  If you've got chlorine, you've got potential for chlorophenol.  I myself got lucky and had no problems with chlorophenol for a dozen or so batches.  Then it happened.  A guy from my homebrew club who worked at the municipal water plant said they add extra chlorine every spring and fall.  My bad batch happened right on schedule in one of those seasons.  So, I'm not saying your municipal water company is necessarily doing the same thing... but some do.  The cure to all this is either to add sulfite (a.k.a. Campden or K-meta), or bottled water, or get an RO system.  If you're using city water and not doing any of those things, you will very likely eventually encounter chlorophenol.

[RC]

If you're using city water and not doing any of those things, you will very likely eventually encounter chlorophenol.

5 years and 150+ batches using unfiltered tap water and no chlorophenol thus far. Many awards won, including golds for pale lagers. I guess I'm the luckiest brewer ever.

[dmtaylor]

If you're using city water and not doing any of those things, you will very likely eventually encounter chlorophenol.

5 years and 150+ batches using unfiltered tap water and no chlorophenol thus far. Many awards won, including golds for pale lagers. I guess I'm the luckiest brewer ever.

Yep, LUCK.  The thing about luck... is that eventually it runs out.

Cheers.

[Iliff Ave]

If you're using city water and not doing any of those things, you will very likely eventually encounter chlorophenol.

5 years and 150+ batches using unfiltered tap water and no chlorophenol thus far. Many awards won, including golds for pale lagers. I guess I'm the luckiest brewer ever.

Thank you. That’s been my experience as well. Not sure how all the sudden it would be a problem on batch 105. My money is on infection.

[RC]

If you're using city water and not doing any of those things, you will very likely eventually encounter chlorophenol.

5 years and 150+ batches using unfiltered tap water and no chlorophenol thus far. Many awards won, including golds for pale lagers. I guess I'm the luckiest brewer ever.

Yep, LUCK.  The thing about luck... is that eventually it runs out.

Cheers.

Observing the same cause-effect relationship 150+ times consecutively is a pattern, it's not luck.

Just curious: after brewing a dozen times with no chlorophenol and then you suddenly got it, how do you conclusively know it was due to not filtering your water vs. wild-yeast infection?

That said, you are correct about cities seasonally spiking their water with more chlorine. But this has no effect, IME. All that chlorine still gasses off upon heating to strike/sparge temp.

Cheers back.

[nateo]

Chloramine doesn't offgas on a time scale useful for brewing. That's why it's used for muni water treatment.

[denny]

If you're using city water and not doing any of those things, you will very likely eventually encounter chlorophenol.

5 years and 150+ batches using unfiltered tap water and no chlorophenol thus far. Many awards won, including golds for pale lagers. I guess I'm the luckiest brewer ever.

Thank you. That’s been my experience as well. Not sure how all the sudden it would be a problem on batch 105. My money is on infection.

The only way to know is to check with your water supplier and see if they spiked the chlorine.  It's not uncommon.

[denny]

If you're using city water and not doing any of those things, you will very likely eventually encounter chlorophenol.

5 years and 150+ batches using unfiltered tap water and no chlorophenol thus far. Many awards won, including golds for pale lagers. I guess I'm the luckiest brewer ever.

Yep, LUCK.  The thing about luck... is that eventually it runs out.

Cheers.

Observing the same cause-effect relationship 150+ times consecutively is a pattern, it's not luck.

Just curious: after brewing a dozen times with no chlorophenol and then you suddenly got it, how do you conclusively know it was due to not filtering your water vs. wild-yeast infection?

That said, you are correct about cities seasonally spiking their water with more chlorine. But this has no effect, IME. All that chlorine still gasses off upon heating to strike/sparge temp.

Cheers back.

It definitely has an effect.  I have witnessed a brewer who had no issues suddenly starting to have them because the chlorine was spiked for the summer.

[dmtaylor]

Just curious: after brewing a dozen times with no chlorophenol and then you suddenly got it, how do you conclusively know it was due to not filtering your water vs. wild-yeast infection?

I dunno.  I haven't had a problem with chlorophenol since then.  I have actually had infections several times over the years.  None of them tasted like chlorophenol.  I wouldn't call that "luck" though.   

Of course, these are anecdotes.  I won't claim to know anything conclusively.  I guess I could run experiments using chlorinated water on purpose to see what happens.  However, I'm also not interested in accepting the risk of having to dump a batch if/when it goes chlorophenolic.  Campden doesn't hurt anything, and is very very cheap insurance.

I have to wonder if there is something special to your process whereby the chlorine really is all offgassing before you brew.  Perhaps they use a very small amount of chlorine at your water treatment plant.  Or are you pouring all your water days or weeks in advance of brewing to where it has that chance to all get out?  These things can help.  I myself keep a 5-gallon jug of brewing water filled from my tap, to which I still do add 1/2 Campden tablet but it stays there in my basement until it's needed.  I do this actually as double insurance, just in case the Campden doesn't work, hey then at least the weeks or months of sitting in the basement will take care of what the Campden didn't.  That's how careful I've become about eliminating chlorine from my tap water.  So I guess I am indeed a little curious how you get your water, how long it sits before use, do you preboil it, etc.  Not necessarily "luck", maybe that was the wrong term.  Maybe you're just careful in a different way that helps.

[Iliff Ave]

If you're using city water and not doing any of those things, you will very likely eventually encounter chlorophenol.

5 years and 150+ batches using unfiltered tap water and no chlorophenol thus far. Many awards won, including golds for pale lagers. I guess I'm the luckiest brewer ever.

Thank you. That’s been my experience as well. Not sure how all the sudden it would be a problem on batch 105. My money is on infection.

The only way to know is to check with your water supplier and see if they spiked the chlorine.  It's not uncommon.

Yes I had mentioned that earlier. I will be getting another wards test done soon.

[nateo]

I wouldn't bother with a ward kit because the water varies so much during the year. Get a GH KH titration kit and a chlorine test kit for aquariums. The two together will be cheaper than a ward test and you can test your water every time you brew. You'll have to make an educated guess on the anion, but the KH kit will give you how much chalk and the rest of the water hardness is going to be mostly gypsum. Kai made a water spreadsheet which can convert Deutsche Harte to ppm.

[majorvices]

Thank you. That’s been my experience as well. Not sure how all the sudden it would be a problem on batch 105. My money is on infection.

How do you know your municipal water hasn't swapped over to chloramines? As was mentioned previously, yes, chlorine will boil out of water. But chloramines will not. And more and more  municipal water sources are switching over to chloramines. Also, it doesn't take much chlorine to cause phenolic flavors. IT's safer just to filter all of your brewing water unless buying bottled.