[Iliff Ave]

Thanks all. My bad.

[RC]

Just curious: after brewing a dozen times with no chlorophenol and then you suddenly got it, how do you conclusively know it was due to not filtering your water vs. wild-yeast infection?

I dunno.  I haven't had a problem with chlorophenol since then.  I have actually had infections several times over the years.  None of them tasted like chlorophenol.  I wouldn't call that "luck" though.   

Of course, these are anecdotes.  I won't claim to know anything conclusively.  I guess I could run experiments using chlorinated water on purpose to see what happens.  However, I'm also not interested in accepting the risk of having to dump a batch if/when it goes chlorophenolic.  Campden doesn't hurt anything, and is very very cheap insurance.

I have to wonder if there is something special to your process whereby the chlorine really is all offgassing before you brew.  Perhaps they use a very small amount of chlorine at your water treatment plant.  Or are you pouring all your water days or weeks in advance of brewing to where it has that chance to all get out?  These things can help.  I myself keep a 5-gallon jug of brewing water filled from my tap, to which I still do add 1/2 Campden tablet but it stays there in my basement until it's needed.  I do this actually as double insurance, just in case the Campden doesn't work, hey then at least the weeks or months of sitting in the basement will take care of what the Campden didn't.  That's how careful I've become about eliminating chlorine from my tap water.  So I guess I am indeed a little curious how you get your water, how long it sits before use, do you preboil it, etc.  Not necessarily "luck", maybe that was the wrong term.  Maybe you're just careful in a different way that helps.

All I do is fill two 10-gal kettles straight from a garden hose the evening before or the morning of brewing. Usually it's the morning of. Straight from the hose, my chlorine measures between 1 to 2 ppm. Important detail: my garden hose is a drinking-safe hose called Zero-G. Don't ever do this with the green, garden-variety plastic hose. It has to be drinking-safe.

Then I fire up the burner and it takes 20-30 min to reach strike temp, i.e. 165-170 F. I immediately dump the water into a cooler and immediately mash in. I then heat the second kettle to ~180 to prep for sparging. Once in a great while I'll take a sample of the strike water before mashing in and cool it and test it, just to be safe. It always comes back with zero chlorine. But I don't do this much anymore, maybe twice a year.

Time is, admittedly, important. I've done tests on 250-mL tap-water samples heated in the microwave. Heated to 160 and then immediately cooled and tested, a little chlorine is still present. Heated to 160 and then let it stand for 5 min, no chlorine. Time is important, but the time it takes me to heat to strike/sparge temp is waaaay more than adequate.

I have been very careful and methodical about this, and I still am. I know the chlorophenol off-flavor very well and I'm as terrified of it as the next brewer. But I just don't worry about it vis-a-vis my water because I've done extensive testing to know that I don't need to. Maybe YMMV? I dunno. I tend to think that if your chlorine comes in at <2ppm, you'll be fine without filtering or treating your water (unless your city uses chloramine! In which case forget all of this, all bets are off, and I've been consistent about this).
 
This started because where I used to brew commercially, our water filter broke and had a stuck valve, and tap water was bypassing the charcoal filter and going straight into the HLT. We made 5 batches with this water before we realized the unit was broken. No chlorophenol. We mixed the HLT water with cold (and unfiltered!) water to maintain temp during mash-in and, again, no chlorophenol.

Make your own conclusions. I made mine 5 years ago. And my brewing is simpler for it.

You don't need to risk a batch to test this. Just fill your kettle and heat it, and then test it. Or heat a sample in the microwave. It's preposterously easy to test, all you need are some test strips.

[Iliff Ave]

Tasting noticeably better tonight.

[majorvices]

... or you are accepting it and getting used to it. J/K I'm glad it's getting better

[denny]

If you're using city water and not doing any of those things, you will very likely eventually encounter chlorophenol.

5 years and 150+ batches using unfiltered tap water and no chlorophenol thus far. Many awards won, including golds for pale lagers. I guess I'm the luckiest brewer ever.

Thank you. That’s been my experience as well. Not sure how all the sudden it would be a problem on batch 105. My money is on infection.

The only way to know is to check with your water supplier and see if they spiked the chlorine.  It's not uncommon.

Yes I had mentioned that earlier. I will be getting another wards test done soon.

I didn't think the Ward test included chlorine/chloramine

[majorvices]

Just buy the strips. They are cheap. Then you will know for sure. Otherwise it is all speculation.

[Iliff Ave]

Sorry all. I’ve realized this thread is ridiculous on my part. Pet peeve of mine is when people ask for help but won’t accept something is wrong. I’ve been doing that here.

I will dive into my water to see what’s going on. Was planning to brew this week but may have to hold off until I can come up with a plan of action.

[BrewBama]

Sometimes when we see hoof prints we think zebras when horses would explain it. Cheers!



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[denny]

Sometimes when we see hoof prints we think zebras when horses would explain it. Cheers!



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Great saying!  Gonna have to borrow that.

[Iliff Ave]

Campden. How much to use and when? Can I add it to finished beer?

[nateo]

For treatment of water before brewing: 1 tab per 20gal is the rule of thumb. You can get fancier with your calc if you know the chlorine content but I wouldn't stress that much about it. I use 1/4tsp of crystalized k meta per 5 gal which is roughly the same.

I wouldn't add to finished beer. It works by making sulphur from chlorine which is a lot more volatile and will blow off during the brewing process.

[dmtaylor]

Campden. How much to use and when? Can I add it to finished beer?

That would be far too late.  Campden needs to be added to the water before it touches any malt.  When the two are mixed, that's when the chemical reactions between chlorine and phenol begin.  The chemical reaction is irreversible.

[Iliff Ave]

Thanks I assumed that was the case.

So add to my mash water before any grain is added?

[nateo]

I would treat any water you might need when brewing. So enough for mash and sparge. I treat the water overnight but I've read you can push it faster than that. It needs some time to work though I don't know how much time.

[BrewBama]

Sometimes when we see hoof prints we think zebras when horses would explain it. Cheers!



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Great saying!  Gonna have to borrow that.

Absolutely. Help yourself.  I heard it over the years when troubleshooting aircraft. It was coined in the late 1940s by Theodore Woodward, professor at the University of Maryland School of Medicine, who instructed his medical interns: "When you hear hoofbeats behind you, don't expect to see a zebra". Since horses are common in Maryland while zebras are relatively rare, logically one could confidently guess that an animal making hoofbeats is probably a horse. By 1960, the aphorism was widely known in medical circles when some were arriving at a surprising, often exotic, medical diagnosis when a more commonplace explanation is more likely.

@ Iliff Ave: I would certainly ensure a consistent water source but… Have you had plastic flavors before?  Sounds like you’ve not treated your water before so barring a change in your water source have you considered an infection? 



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