Author Topic: Using collapsable bags to displace o2 during racking/packaging  (Read 2613 times)

Offline RC

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Re: Using collapsable bags to displace o2 during racking/packaging
« Reply #45 on: June 22, 2021, 10:24:37 am »
Yawn. Go away, Bryan. I am certain you can find something better to do than this. Go do something productive. Trolling is so beneath you.


Bilsch is very well known around homebrew circles, and is not Bryan. I am not sure why there always has to be pot shots taken at folks who can't even respond. It's very petty.

Bilsch also has the tools necessary to back up his claims, I'd at least entertain them, since, all else at this point is speculation.

I think you are missing the point. Sometimes it's not what is said, but how it's said. A condescending, arrogant tone can obscure what might otherwise be good points.

Offline hmbrw4life

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Re: Using collapsable bags to displace o2 during racking/packaging
« Reply #46 on: June 22, 2021, 10:45:57 am »
Yawn. Go away, Bryan. I am certain you can find something better to do than this. Go do something productive. Trolling is so beneath you.


Bilsch is very well known around homebrew circles, and is not Bryan. I am not sure why there always has to be pot shots taken at folks who can't even respond. It's very petty.

Bilsch also has the tools necessary to back up his claims, I'd at least entertain them, since, all else at this point is speculation.

I think you are missing the point. Sometimes it's not what is said, but how it's said. A condescending, arrogant tone can obscure what might otherwise be good points.

Tone is a tough one, since we are not actually speaking. Tone is only one personal(or group) interpretation of a small blurb of text on the internet. Inherently social media (this included) is a very poor form of actual communication, as what is benign to me, could be repulsive to you all based on how we interpret some characters in cyberspace.

I could interpret your tone in your response as condensing, and insulting to me. Implying that I don't have the cognitive capacity to understand words. See how that works?
FWIW, I don't because I know this medium is short form, lacking full context/details and give folks the benefit of the doubt while trying to not allow any personal bias in. It makes what short time I spend on the internet less stressful into my (real) personal life.
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Offline denny

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Re: Using collapsable bags to displace o2 during racking/packaging
« Reply #47 on: June 22, 2021, 11:17:23 am »
Yawn. Go away, Bryan. I am certain you can find something better to do than this. Go do something productive. Trolling is so beneath you.


Bilsch is very well known around homebrew circles, and is not Bryan. I am not sure why there always has to be pot shots taken at folks who can't even respond. It's very petty.

Bilsch also has the tools necessary to back up his claims, I'd at least entertain them, since, all else at this point is speculation.

The outcome of the beer is not speculation. That's the best way to judge effectiveness of any process.

Outcome of beer does not change the o2 permeation of polymers, or change the properties of the ideal gas laws. It's not the proper argument to make.
The speculation of folks without the tools to measure, is just that.

The argument to make is.. Does this bag method subjectively improve the beers for the people who use it?
If so, great!
If not, great!
Both are data points and we log those to make our decisions in the future.

None of which changes said properties above. FWIW I asked way back in this thread if he thought it made a difference, which is the question to ask since we are all are here to take people's experiences to choose if we want to follow or not.

That's what I said.
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Using collapsable bags to displace o2 during racking/packaging
« Reply #48 on: June 22, 2021, 11:40:05 am »

Bilsch is very well known around homebrew circles, and is not Bryan. I am not sure why there always has to be pot shots taken at folks who can't even respond. It's very petty.


Well, I thought it was him. To be fair other people on this forum have questioned a few times if different posters weren't him. Ample opportunity here for him to clarify. It was trolling, regardless, so no apologies.



Bilsch also has the tools necessary to back up his claims, I'd at least entertain them, since, all else at this point is speculation.

This is silly. If you think that a plastic bag filled with Co2 is exchanging gas during the 20-30 minutes being use to detrimental effects -- well, I don't know what to tell you. I have the tools to test this as well. I have access to a DO meter. But honestly, it's homebrew. It's not worth wasting my time or resources. Even if only 90% of the air in the bag is Co2 it is still better than displacing with standard household air. Not sure why there would be a discussion about this.

Edit: I want to clarify that the original post was about filling a collapsable bag with Co2 and using that attached to the bung during racking or packaging. The idea of "storing" blow off Co2 was only a secondary idea. Yes, I'm sure that gas collected during a blow off would not be pure Co2 -- that said, I still thin k it would be better to displace with that gas than with standard house hold air. But whatever! I have never tried that methoid it is just an idea for people who don;'t have co2 tanks.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2021, 11:57:13 am by majorvices »

Offline hmbrw4life

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Re: Using collapsable bags to displace o2 during racking/packaging
« Reply #49 on: June 22, 2021, 12:00:16 pm »
Yawn. Go away, Bryan. I am certain you can find something better to do than this. Go do something productive. Trolling is so beneath you.


Bilsch is very well known around homebrew circles, and is not Bryan. I am not sure why there always has to be pot shots taken at folks who can't even respond. It's very petty.

Bilsch also has the tools necessary to back up his claims, I'd at least entertain them, since, all else at this point is speculation.

The outcome of the beer is not speculation. That's the best way to judge effectiveness of any process.

Outcome of beer does not change the o2 permeation of polymers, or change the properties of the ideal gas laws. It's not the proper argument to make.
The speculation of folks without the tools to measure, is just that.

The argument to make is.. Does this bag method subjectively improve the beers for the people who use it?
If so, great!
If not, great!
Both are data points and we log those to make our decisions in the future.

None of which changes said properties above. FWIW I asked way back in this thread if he thought it made a difference, which is the question to ask since we are all are here to take people's experiences to choose if we want to follow or not.

That's what I said.

Certainly not what you said.  Let's go with meant!  ;)
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Offline hmbrw4life

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Re: Using collapsable bags to displace o2 during racking/packaging
« Reply #50 on: June 22, 2021, 12:14:22 pm »

Bilsch is very well known around homebrew circles, and is not Bryan. I am not sure why there always has to be pot shots taken at folks who can't even respond. It's very petty.


Well, I thought it was him. To be fair other people on this forum have questioned a few times if different posters weren't him. Ample opportunity here for him to clarify. It was trolling, regardless, so no apologies.



Bilsch also has the tools necessary to back up his claims, I'd at least entertain them, since, all else at this point is speculation.

This is silly. If you think that a plastic bag filled with Co2 is exchanging gas during the 20-30 minutes being use to detrimental effects -- well, I don't know what to tell you. I have the tools to test this as well. I have access to a DO meter. But honestly, it's homebrew. It's not worth wasting my time or resources. Even if only 90% of the air in the bag is Co2 it is still better than displacing with standard household air. Not sure why there would be a discussion about this.

Edit: I want to clarify that the original post was about filling a collapsable bag with Co2 and using that attached to the bung during racking or packaging. The idea of "storing" blow off Co2 was only a secondary idea. Yes, I'm sure that gas collected during a blow off would not be pure Co2 -- that said, I still thin k it would be better to displace with that gas than with standard house hold air. But whatever! I have never tried that methoid it is just an idea for people who don;'t have co2 tanks.

Ok so are you saying this is fabricated?


Cause with most certainly it would have to come from admins and or mods, of which there are a few in this thread. So if not fabricated, how would one be able to have opportunities to defend himself from attacks?  Even outside of that.. WANT to come back here, or feel the desire to troll? Seems quite interesting, that you guys seem to have this "thing" going on..

It's no doubt the bag is exchanging gas, it's not impermeable. We have established science backed up with tools and measurements of such.
I don't think anyone is denying you your choice to not want to measure or care about it, but again it doesn't stop the exchange.
Is it enough to make a difference? My speculation says probably No
Is it way better than sucking in kitchen air? My speculation shouts, Yes

Fermentation produces as pure of co2 as you can get, so thats a great idea. BUT, you have the issue of the permeability of the storage container for longer term storage. That doesn't invalidate the idea/methods/process, just something to consider.




Science functions when theory correctly predicts the results of experiments.
Six Sigma in a former life. Retired in the current life.

Offline majorvices

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Re: Using collapsable bags to displace o2 during racking/packaging
« Reply #51 on: June 22, 2021, 01:51:02 pm »
FTR I never attacked anyone. All I did was say that there's no need to troll. It's my bad for bringing up Bryan. I seriously thought it was him. It's a moot point now.