Author Topic: sugar added to secondary  (Read 1904 times)

Offline majorvices

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Re: sugar added to secondary
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2010, 11:20:00 AM »
Yeah, rousing the yeast and warming slightly will be your best bet if the fermentation is stalled. But depending on your recipe and/or fermentation practice it could just be done. Also, double check your hydrometer in water to see if it is still calibrated correctly.
Keith Y.

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Offline ipaguy

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Re: sugar added to secondary
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2010, 01:41:09 PM »
For me big is over 1.065 - unless you are talking about a IIPA and that is a session beer.  ;) I still don;t secodnary many beers, perhaps a barley wine, RIS or a fruit beer.

That said, since your name is IPA guy I'll mention that I also dry hop in the primary after fermentation has settles. One thing I will mention though is I keg all my beers and kegging is essentially a big bright tank.

My last two batches were at around 1.072, so I guess that's fairly big.  Although I've just gotten back into brewing, I used to brew quite a bit around 10 yr. ago.  I'm pretty careful on sanitation, and have never had a contamination problem.  One reason I use a secondary is that I feel like I get a little less sediment when bottle conditioning.
Primary: gotlandsdricke/alt/dunkel hybrid
Secondary: pale barleywine,
Bottled:  Gotlandsdricke
               Oatmeal/blackberry stout
               Honey Kolsch

Offline majorvices

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Re: sugar added to secondary
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2010, 04:00:54 AM »
That's the best reason to use a secondary (less sediment). Since I keg all my beer I can blow out 90% of the sediment on the first pour.

That said, I have lagered in the primary for a week or two and have transferred crystal clear beer. But what matters is what works for you. And the sugar idea to blow out a little co2 and purge head space seems like a pretty good idea if you are using a secondary.
Keith Y.

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Offline ipaguy

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Re: sugar added to secondary
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2010, 06:13:44 AM »
To clarify my thinking on this topic, I figure that potential oxygen contact is one big reason that argues against using a secondary.  In spite of reassurances to the contrary, my secondary usually does not have enough dissolved co2 to bubble the airlock after making the transfer.  To me this potentially makes the secondary the major bad actor re. o2 contact.  (Primary is obviously no problem.  o2 in the bottle headspace should be removed by aerobic fermentation of the priming sugar.)  If I had a co2 bottle, I might use that to purge the secondary headspace, but I figure that the sugar does a better job of purging any dissolved o2 introduce when transferring from the primary.  Because I dry hop more often than not, adding the sugar is a pretty trivial amount of extra effort.  Besides, it helps me relax and not worry.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2010, 07:57:00 AM by ipaguy »
Primary: gotlandsdricke/alt/dunkel hybrid
Secondary: pale barleywine,
Bottled:  Gotlandsdricke
               Oatmeal/blackberry stout
               Honey Kolsch

Offline uisgue

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Re: sugar added to secondary
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2010, 06:08:55 PM »
Also, double check your hydrometer in water to see if it is still calibrated correctly.
Just out of curiosity, how could you recalibrate your hydrometer if it is incorrect?
Doug Hickey
Crescent City, CA
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Offline bluesman

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Re: sugar added to secondary
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2010, 06:21:33 PM »
Also, double check your hydrometer in water to see if it is still calibrated correctly.
Just out of curiosity, how could you recalibrate your hydrometer if it is incorrect?

You make an error correction.  If the hydrometer reads 1.001 in distilled water @ 60F.  You would have to subtract .001 from your actual measurements to acheive the correction.
Ron Price

Offline bonjour

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Re: sugar added to secondary
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2010, 08:45:45 PM »
... I only use a secondary for big beers or other specialty beers ...

How do you define 'big'?

A big beer is a beer that as Keith has indicated has a relatively high gravity but also requires bulk conditioning and/or aging.
OK, you got me here.  I rarely use a secondary on a big beer, fruit beer yes, and why does a "big" beer "Require" aging?
They should be extremely good as soon as you keg/bottle them and they have carbonated, which should be via force carbonated anyway.

Fred Bonjour
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Everything under 1.100 is a 'session' beer ;)

Offline bluesman

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Re: sugar added to secondary
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2010, 03:25:41 AM »
... I only use a secondary for big beers or other specialty beers ...

How do you define 'big'?

A big beer is a beer that as Keith has indicated has a relatively high gravity but also requires bulk conditioning and/or aging.
OK, you got me here.  I rarely use a secondary on a big beer, fruit beer yes, and why does a "big" beer "Require" aging?
They should be extremely good as soon as you keg/bottle them and they have carbonated, which should be via force carbonated anyway.



OK Fred,  I stand corrected.

"Require" was a poor choice of words.  Let's just say "may require" some bulk conditioning and/or aging like an oaked RIS or BW.

I've learned to stand out of the way when Dr. Bonjour talks about big beers.  ;D

Ron Price

Offline bonjour

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Re: sugar added to secondary
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2010, 06:18:15 AM »
... I only use a secondary for big beers or other specialty beers ...

How do you define 'big'?

A big beer is a beer that as Keith has indicated has a relatively high gravity but also requires bulk conditioning and/or aging.
;D ;D ;D
So noted.  on aging. . . .
aging allows complexity to develop, allows the beer to improve, but you have to have a good beer to begin with.

aging also allows "off" flavors to dissipate, over-oaked, too much spice, or even some fermentation flaws, Fusel alcohols, diacetyl, acetaldehyde.  But they are only there because you need to tweak something.
OK, you got me here.  I rarely use a secondary on a big beer, fruit beer yes, and why does a "big" beer "Require" aging?
They should be extremely good as soon as you keg/bottle them and they have carbonated, which should be via force carbonated anyway.



OK Fred,  I stand corrected.

"Require" was a poor choice of words.  Let's just say "may require" some bulk conditioning and/or aging like an oaked RIS or BW.

I've learned to stand out of the way when Dr. Bonjour talks about big beers.  ;D


Fred Bonjour
Co-Chair Mashing in Michigan 2014 AHA Conference in Grand Rapids, Michigan
AHA Governing Committee; AHA Conference, Club Support & Web Subcommittees



Everything under 1.100 is a 'session' beer ;)

Offline a10t2

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Re: sugar added to secondary
« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2010, 06:49:35 PM »
To clarify my thinking on this topic, I figure that potential oxygen contact is one big reason that argues against using a secondary.

While I would agree with that, purging O2 after the transfer is done is like closing the barn after the horse has gotten out. Most of your oxidation concerns are going to involve the transfer into the secondary.

o2 in the bottle headspace should be removed by aerobic fermentation of the priming sugar.)

Nit-picking, but fermentation (by yeast) is anaerobic. You need reproduction to remove O2.
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Online tschmidlin

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Re: sugar added to secondary
« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2010, 09:59:06 PM »
o2 in the bottle headspace should be removed by aerobic fermentation of the priming sugar.)
Nit-picking, but fermentation (by yeast) is anaerobic. You need reproduction to remove O2.
As long as we're picking nits, it can also be removed via respiration of the sugar to CO2 and H2O, which is sometimes referred to as aerobic fermentation in the literature.  Although the level of priming sugar in the beer (I get .033M if you use 3/4 cup corn sugar in 5 gallons) is high enough that the Crabtree Effect will favor fermentation over respiration.  :)
Tom Schmidlin