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Author Topic: Kick carageenan...  (Read 2086 times)

Offline Village Taphouse

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Kick carageenan...
« on: August 14, 2021, 10:59:23 am »
... is making me swear.  I have been using a full whirfloc tablet for the past 10+ batches and have gotten super clear wort prior to going into the kettle.  Today I decided to use one of the 4 or 5 Kick tablets I had left.  My wort is uber cloudy today after the chill.   >:(
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline Bob357

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Re: Kick carageenan...
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2021, 11:29:59 am »
I'm assuming you mean into the fermenter, not the kettle, as you stated. I used the Kick tablets for ~20 batches with the same results as Whirlfloc. They're pretty much the same, with Carrageenan (Irish Moss) as the active ingredient. Remember, you're using about half as much. I've experienced cloudy wort after chilling with no apparent reason before. It happens. The good news is, it won't have a negative affect on the finished product. Laying the blame on a product is just an easy out.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2021, 11:32:48 am by Bob357 »
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Bob357
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Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Kick carageenan...
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2021, 11:38:21 am »
I am optimistic that the beer will clear.  I'm pointing to Kick because it's the only variable today.  The recipe I made today has been made three times since June 4.  All the same ingredients from the same bags, same hops, same blob of yeast, same water.  Mash pH looked great.  Last 10 batches used WF and those batches had crystal clear wort (on top of trub) in the kettle and then into the fermenter.  It might not be the Kick but the evidence seems to point to it. 
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline Bob357

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Re: Kick carageenan...
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2021, 12:55:44 pm »
"Today I decided to use one of the 4 or 5 Kick tablets I had left."
This leads me to believer that you've used it before, and with no mention of a similar problem. IIRC, standard packaging is 10 tablets, so maybe several previous uses.

Either way, "the most likely suspect", is subjective and not a good substitute for evidence. As I said, Laying the blame on a product is just an easy out.
Beer is my bucket list,

Bob357
Fallon, NV

Offline HighVoltageMan!

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Re: Kick carageenan...
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2021, 02:59:15 pm »
Just because your wort isn’t perfectly clear, that may not translate to the beer. I have seen a nasty cloudy wort produce brilliantly clear beer. Some things that may cause a cloudy wort is starch. But the most likely culprit is beta glucan. It drops out. You can add beta glucanase to the mash to eliminate it. Here’s a link to MoreBeeer! Glucanase product. I use it with every brew, it makes my RIMS system run perfectly every brew. I highly recommend it.

https://www.morebeer.com/products/cellarscience-glucabuster-placeholder.html?variant=AD106B

Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Kick carageenan...
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2021, 03:42:43 pm »
Just because your wort isn’t perfectly clear, that may not translate to the beer. I have seen a nasty cloudy wort produce brilliantly clear beer. Some things that may cause a cloudy wort is starch. But the most likely culprit is beta glucan. It drops out. You can add beta glucanase to the mash to eliminate it. Here’s a link to MoreBeeer! Glucanase product. I use it with every brew, it makes my RIMS system run perfectly every brew. I highly recommend it.

https://www.morebeer.com/products/cellarscience-glucabuster-placeholder.html?variant=AD106B
I have my fingers crossed that it will clear.  I have used some of the Cellar Science products with mixed results but I don't think I have used that one.  Thank you for the link. 
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline fredthecat

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Re: Kick carageenan...
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2021, 04:01:03 pm »
i don't know about kick, but i recall using a very old like ~2 years old whirfloc tab once and i perceived that it didn't work as well as fresh ones. ie. the beer seemed unexpectedly cloudy. but who knows

Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Kick carageenan...
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2021, 05:08:58 pm »
i don't know about kick, but i recall using a very old like ~2 years old whirfloc tab once and i perceived that it didn't work as well as fresh ones. ie. the beer seemed unexpectedly cloudy. but who knows
If there is a shelf life, I don't know it.  I purchased these Kick tablets within the last 6-7 months so if there is a shelf life I feel like these would be in good shape. 
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Online BrewBama

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Re: Kick carageenan...
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2021, 05:36:39 pm »
… I have used some of the Cellar Science products with mixed results …

I used some of Cellar Science’s Brutzyme in an effort to dry out the beer I have fermenting now. Hope it works.



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Offline BrewNerd

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Re: Kick carageenan...
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2021, 05:26:59 pm »
Charlie Papazian in the 2nd edition of "The New Complete Joy of Home Brewing" page 103:

"If chill haze really annoys you, I could recommend that you drink out of a stone jar or wooden mug..."

Thought that was worth a chuckle even as my undiagnosed OCD wants to look up prices for used lab equipment to see what's REALLY in my beer.

Offline Wilbur

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Re: Kick carageenan...
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2021, 07:54:33 pm »
Did you use whirfloc or a kick tablet for the previous batches? Fining dose is affected by mash pH, gravity, malt variety/age, etc. so the kick tablet might just be the wrong dose for this recipe. I just tried one on a pale ale, it seemed to clear wort into the fermenter pretty well.

https://bsgcraftbrewing.com/Resources%5CCraftBrewing%5CPDFs%5CBrewing_Processes_and_Techniques/WortandBeerFiningManual.pdf

Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Kick carageenan...
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2021, 08:06:06 pm »
Did you use whirfloc or a kick tablet for the previous batches? Fining dose is affected by mash pH, gravity, malt variety/age, etc. so the kick tablet might just be the wrong dose for this recipe. I just tried one on a pale ale, it seemed to clear wort into the fermenter pretty well.

https://bsgcraftbrewing.com/Resources%5CCraftBrewing%5CPDFs%5CBrewing_Processes_and_Techniques/WortandBeerFiningManual.pdf
Many of my prior batches from the last couple of months were whirfloc and they were all very clear.  I hadn't used the KC tablet in awhile and IIRC, I had a few other batches where the KC tablet resulted in hazy wort as well.  I should say that one whirfloc tablet always clears my wort well but I tried the KC because it was half the size (less schputz in the kettle) and supposedly the correct dosage because one whirfloc tablet is supposed to be for 10 gallons.
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline PORTERHAUS

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Re: Kick carageenan...
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2021, 06:57:43 am »
... is making me swear.  I have been using a full whirfloc tablet for the past 10+ batches and have gotten super clear wort prior to going into the kettle.  Today I decided to use one of the 4 or 5 Kick tablets I had left.  My wort is uber cloudy today after the chill.   >:(

Try it or whirlfloc with 5 mins left in the boil, after you add your acid ~10 min to drop the boil ph


Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Kick carageenan...
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2021, 07:08:43 am »
... is making me swear.  I have been using a full whirfloc tablet for the past 10+ batches and have gotten super clear wort prior to going into the kettle.  Today I decided to use one of the 4 or 5 Kick tablets I had left.  My wort is uber cloudy today after the chill.   >:(

Try it or whirlfloc with 5 mins left in the boil, after you add your acid ~10 min to drop the boil ph
That's what I have been doing for a few batches now.  Same this time... I had an acid addition with 10 minutes left and then used the KC with 7 minutes left. 
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline majorvices

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Re: Kick carageenan...
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2021, 07:10:09 am »
I stopped using WF, IM, carageenan years ago. It made no impact on the final clarity of my beer. Nailing the mash pH is the key to good hot and cold breaks. I will admit that in the past, doing side my side boils, I did try one batch with IM and one batch without, and in the hydrometer flask the one wih was decidedly more clear initially. But no difference in the final beer.