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Author Topic: Yeast starter  (Read 1551 times)

Offline Kenpropst

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Yeast starter
« on: August 23, 2021, 02:35:23 pm »
I am going to make a high gravity stout.it came with two yeast packets.do I use both in the starter or would one be fine

Offline denny

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Re: Yeast starter
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2021, 02:52:44 pm »
I am going to make a high gravity stout.it came with two yeast packets.do I use both in the starter or would one be fine

What yeast?  What gravity? If it's dry I wouldn't recommend a starter.
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Offline Kevin

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Re: Yeast starter
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2021, 07:18:12 am »
Denny's questions are first and foremost before anyone can even hazard a guess but it sounds like you are brewing a kit so I would assume that if they provided two packets of yeast then two packets should be adequate. And as Denny said, no starter necessary with dry yeast.
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Offline Kenpropst

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Re: Yeast starter
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2021, 05:53:14 pm »
It is a Kit with an OG of 1.096 and it is a dry yeast safale US-05

Offline RC

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Re: Yeast starter
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2021, 07:02:05 pm »
With a wort that concentrated, might be a good idea to at least rehydrate the yeast before pitching...?

I once simply sprinkled four sachets into a 1.104 wort and (to my surprise) it made a great RIS. But not sure if two would have done the job. From a desiccated yeast cell's perspective, that's about as osmotically stressful as an environment can be for trying to bring water in across the cell membrane.

I agree that a starter isn't necessary. And typically neither is rehydration. But for a 1.096 OG wort? I'm all ears for anyone who has experience using just two sachets of sprinkled-in dry yeast in a wort this concentrated.

Offline joe_meadmaker

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Re: Yeast starter
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2021, 08:07:49 pm »
My last two brews were a Burton ale followed by a Porter.  The OGs were 1.082 and 1.077 respectively.  Nether of them is quite up to 1.096, but both of them only got 1 pack of Nottingham sprinkled on top with no rehydration.  Both batches fermented out completely, and only took a few days to do so.

Offline denny

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Re: Yeast starter
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2021, 08:32:59 am »
It is a Kit with an OG of 1.096 and it is a dry yeast safale US-05

Since it's dry yeast, don't make a starter.  You should be fine with 2 packs.
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Offline denny

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Re: Yeast starter
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2021, 08:33:36 am »
With a wort that concentrated, might be a good idea to at least rehydrate the yeast before pitching...?

I once simply sprinkled four sachets into a 1.104 wort and (to my surprise) it made a great RIS. But not sure if two would have done the job. From a desiccated yeast cell's perspective, that's about as osmotically stressful as an environment can be for trying to bring water in across the cell membrane.

I agree that a starter isn't necessary. And typically neither is rehydration. But for a 1.096 OG wort? I'm all ears for anyone who has experience using just two sachets of sprinkled-in dry yeast in a wort this concentrated.

It's not necessary, but you could rehydrate.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Yeast starter
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2021, 08:39:10 am »
I agree with Denny.  Two packs is plenty.  Rehydration is an extra step and you'll still get great results without it, so I am an advocate for skipping rehydration.
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Offline denny

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Re: Yeast starter
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2021, 09:07:41 am »
I agree with Denny.  Two packs is plenty.  Rehydration is an extra step and you'll still get great results without it, so I am an advocate for skipping rehydration.

25 years ago, Dan Listermann stopped recommending rehydration to his customers.  He said so many of them screwed it up by using too high a temp and killing the yeast that it was better to pitch dry.  Many people's experience verifies that.
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Offline BrewBama

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Yeast starter
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2021, 09:19:15 am »
It is a Kit with an OG of 1.096 and it is a dry yeast safale US-05
I would recommend ~25 grams but 2 packs is close enough (22 grams).

(96 gravity pts / 25) * 6.5 = 24.96 grams

I pitch dry as the fermenter is filling which is recommended by the mfr.



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« Last Edit: August 25, 2021, 09:26:37 am by BrewBama »

Offline Kenpropst

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Re: Yeast starter
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2021, 03:18:05 pm »
Thank you for all the great answers

Offline BrewNerd

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Re: Yeast starter
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2021, 10:23:39 am »
So as near as I can tell, yeast is more durable than I've been led to believe. But sometimes it's incredibly fragile. Ugh...

Myth #1a: NEVER make a starter for dry yeast or rehydrate it prior to pitching
Myth #1b: ALWAYS make a starter for dry yeast and rehydrate it to help it rebound from the process used to prepare it for shipping/ packaging

Forgive me for having a list of a single item but this has been bugging me so I'll get to the point.

If you make good beer using the yeast that you have regardless of your prep, that's a win. You did it right.

I'm all for the simple solution most likely being the correct one (dry pitching) however giving your yeast every advantage possible (rehydrating and starter creation) seems like the better idea. At least intellectually.

I've found this contradiction in every brewing book I've read up to this point. It would appear to be close to a 50/50 split. It might not matter.

If what you do works, do it again. If it doesn't, switch to the other method.

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Yeast starter
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2021, 10:35:33 am »
So as near as I can tell, yeast is more durable than I've been led to believe. But sometimes it's incredibly fragile. Ugh...

Myth #1a: NEVER make a starter for dry yeast or rehydrate it prior to pitching
Myth #1b: ALWAYS make a starter for dry yeast and rehydrate it to help it rebound from the process used to prepare it for shipping/ packaging

Forgive me for having a list of a single item but this has been bugging me so I'll get to the point.

If you make good beer using the yeast that you have regardless of your prep, that's a win. You did it right.

I'm all for the simple solution most likely being the correct one (dry pitching) however giving your yeast every advantage possible (rehydrating and starter creation) seems like the better idea. At least intellectually.

I've found this contradiction in every brewing book I've read up to this point. It would appear to be close to a 50/50 split. It might not matter.

If what you do works, do it again. If it doesn't, switch to the other method.

 

But you will find that many recommendations of dry yeast manufacturers vary by brand (rehydrate, no need to rehydrate, sprkinkle on top, mix in as wort is being transferred to the fermenter, etc...).  Further - if repitching slurry from a fermented out original dry yeast pitch, then consider it to be a liquid slurry and oxygenate and feed it yeast nutrient....or not.   :-\
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Offline HighVoltageMan!

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Re: Yeast starter
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2021, 11:22:46 am »
So as near as I can tell, yeast is more durable than I've been led to believe. But sometimes it's incredibly fragile. Ugh...

Myth #1a: NEVER make a starter for dry yeast or rehydrate it prior to pitching
Myth #1b: ALWAYS make a starter for dry yeast and rehydrate it to help it rebound from the process used to prepare it for shipping/ packaging

Forgive me for having a list of a single item but this has been bugging me so I'll get to the point.

If you make good beer using the yeast that you have regardless of your prep, that's a win. You did it right.

I'm all for the simple solution most likely being the correct one (dry pitching) however giving your yeast every advantage possible (rehydrating and starter creation) seems like the better idea. At least intellectually.

I've found this contradiction in every brewing book I've read up to this point. It would appear to be close to a 50/50 split. It might not matter.

If what you do works, do it again. If it doesn't, switch to the other method.

Yes, you can make a starter from dry yeast. But once you do, you have to treat it like liquid yeast. Liquid yeast and dry yeast should be treated differently. Dry yeast is much more tolerate to low wort oxygen at pitching due to having much more sterol and lipid reserves than it's liquid cousin. In addition they keep better because it is truly in a dormant state. Liquid yeast is at a disadvantage because is not really in dormant state like dry yeast and as it ages it's sterol and glycine reserves are depleting, it also has lower lipid reserves. So as stated by ynotbrusum, liquid yeast requires higher levels of oxygen in the wort to build up it's lipid and sterol reserves necessary for a healthy fermentation.

If you understand the yeast better, you can pick through all the chaff in the information and find the truth/solution for your situation. Yeast manufacturers give general guidance, but in reality it is incomplete.