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Author Topic: Handling Dark Malts For Black IPA  (Read 1964 times)

Offline PORTERHAUS

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Handling Dark Malts For Black IPA
« on: August 27, 2021, 07:25:53 am »
Never brewed the style, don't really brew a lot of IPA's as it is but anyway I have .25 lb (~3%) each Midnight Wheat and Black Prinz malt for a small batch (3 Gal at end of boil) Black IPA. I'm a bit torn between just adding dark malts in the mash the whole time or adding them near the end of the mash. I recirculate the entire time and I plan on a bit higher mash ph as I do with all my dark beers. I brew a lot of Porters and Stouts, but obviously this is meant to be a smooth, subtle roast character but the only thing I worry about adding them near the end of the mash is not getting enough color? I want it more than dark Brown. It is going to be a bigger ~8% version so I guess you want SOME roast character there and not strictly just color...but it's a fine line I guess. I do have them crushed and packaged separately, maybe I can add the Midnight Wheat for the whole mash and the Black Prinz near the end of the mash.

Offline goose

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Re: Handling Dark Malts For Black IPA
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2021, 07:48:20 am »
When I make my Black IPA, I just put the dark malts right in with the rest of the grist.  Of course I use RO water and adjust my water profile for the style and the pH falls right in line with what I am looking for.  The beer always comes out great and I have medalled many times with this beer.

If you want to put the dark grains in after the conversion is complete, I would recirculate at least 10 minutes or so before collecting the wort. I do that during the mashout with my big stouts since the dark grains drive the mash pH way down and compensating with acid is tough with such a large grain bill.  You should be able to get the color you want with this method.  So, it boils down to (no pun intended) your personal choice on how you want to do this.  Either way will work.
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Offline PORTERHAUS

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Re: Handling Dark Malts For Black IPA
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2021, 08:01:10 am »
When I make my Black IPA, I just put the dark malts right in with the rest of the grist.  Of course I use RO water and adjust my water profile for the style and the pH falls right in line with what I am looking for.  The beer always comes out great and I have medalled many times with this beer.

If you want to put the dark grains in after the conversion is complete, I would recirculate at least 10 minutes or so before collecting the wort. I do that during the mashout with my big stouts since the dark grains drive the mash pH way down and compensating with acid is tough with such a large grain bill.  You should be able to get the color you want with this method.  So, it boils down to (no pun intended) your personal choice on how you want to do this.  Either way will work.

Thanks, what are your dark grains of choice and percentages on your BIPA's?

Offline goose

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Re: Handling Dark Malts For Black IPA
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2021, 08:03:03 am »
My recipe is on the AHA website.  It's called Black Old Sun

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Goose Steingass
Wooster, OH
Society of Akron Area Zymurgists (SAAZ)
Wayne County Brew Club
Mansfield Brew Club
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Online BrewBama

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Re: Handling Dark Malts For Black IPA
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2021, 08:49:17 am »
I certainly can’t argue with Goose’s success but naturally I’d go a different route. . His recipe looks outstanding.

However, I hold any grain that doesn’t require mashing until mashout vorlauf (15 min) and sparge vorlauf (15 min) for a 30 min total hot steep.

I began doing this ~10 brews ago and have been very pleased with the results.  I’ve yet to have diminished character or color.

I do this because it makes every mash the same every time. (I thrive on consistency.)

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Handling Dark Malts For Black IPA
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2021, 11:04:52 am »
I certainly can’t argue with Goose’s success but naturally I’d go a different route. . His recipe looks outstanding.

However, I hold any grain that doesn’t require mashing until mashout vorlauf (15 min) and sparge vorlauf (15 min) for a 30 min total hot steep.

I began doing this ~10 brews ago and have been very pleased with the results.  I’ve yet to have diminished character or color.

I do this because it makes every mash the same every time. (I thrive on consistency.)

When you guys do what you do, are you calculating the mash pH desired using the ultimate final grist components or the initial (paler) grist?  It would seem to risk too low of a final mash pH, if the pale grist is treated for its desired acidification and then adding dark grains at vorlauf.   Any problems there?
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Offline goose

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Re: Handling Dark Malts For Black IPA
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2021, 02:13:31 pm »
I certainly can’t argue with Goose’s success but naturally I’d go a different route. . His recipe looks outstanding.

However, I hold any grain that doesn’t require mashing until mashout vorlauf (15 min) and sparge vorlauf (15 min) for a 30 min total hot steep.

I began doing this ~10 brews ago and have been very pleased with the results.  I’ve yet to have diminished character or color.

I do this because it makes every mash the same every time. (I thrive on consistency.)

When you guys do what you do, are you calculating the mash pH desired using the ultimate final grist components or the initial (paler) grist?  It would seem to risk too low of a final mash pH, if the pale grist is treated for its desired acidification and then adding dark grains at vorlauf.   Any problems there?

I look at the predicted pH with all of the grains in Bru'n Water and also with the dark grains left out.  That way I can decide whether to leave them in or put them in during mashout.  Like I said, when I make my stouts, the dark grains pull the pH too low so I leave them out until mashout.  With the Black IPA I don't see the pH pulled beyond the ideal range by mashing the dark grains with the lighter ones and I measure the mash pH every time just to make sure.

I can't argue with Brewbama's method.  If it works for him, great!  I have done it both ways and have had success with either method.
Goose Steingass
Wooster, OH
Society of Akron Area Zymurgists (SAAZ)
Wayne County Brew Club
Mansfield Brew Club
BJCP Certified

Online BrewBama

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Handling Dark Malts For Black IPA
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2021, 02:38:04 pm »
I certainly can’t argue with Goose’s success but naturally I’d go a different route. . His recipe looks outstanding.

However, I hold any grain that doesn’t require mashing until mashout vorlauf (15 min) and sparge vorlauf (15 min) for a 30 min total hot steep.

I began doing this ~10 brews ago and have been very pleased with the results.  I’ve yet to have diminished character or color.

I do this because it makes every mash the same every time. (I thrive on consistency.)

When you guys do what you do, are you calculating the mash pH desired using the ultimate final grist components or the initial (paler) grist?  It would seem to risk too low of a final mash pH, if the pale grist is treated for its desired acidification and then adding dark grains at vorlauf.   Any problems there?
I plan pH on the main mash (only the grains that require mashing).

I have had zero problems which is why I continue to do it.



I can't argue with Brewbama's method.  If it works for him, great!  I have done it both ways and have had success with either method.

It’s Gordon Strong’s method. I just adopted it.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2021, 02:41:08 pm by BrewBama »

Offline BeerfanOz

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Re: Handling Dark Malts For Black IPA
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2021, 07:47:50 pm »
I’ve been adding dark malts at mashout for close to a decade. Even in stout. For me, it’s just easier and I don’t have to worry about changing ph. Smooth as silk and no harshness, just roasty flavour goodness
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Offline chinaski

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Re: Handling Dark Malts For Black IPA
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2021, 12:58:17 pm »
You can also just steep the dark grains in the kettle for the color. 

Offline goose

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Re: Handling Dark Malts For Black IPA
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2021, 08:29:59 am »
You can also just steep the dark grains in the kettle for the color.

I would wonder if that has a negative impact on the flavor the dark grains impart by doing this in the kettle especially when the wort gets diluted by the sparge. If it is done while collecting the wort, it could work.  Just curious.
Goose Steingass
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Offline chinaski

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Re: Handling Dark Malts For Black IPA
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2021, 05:43:12 pm »
Why would it?

Online BrewBama

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Re: Handling Dark Malts For Black IPA
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2021, 06:09:29 pm »
Why would it?
+1. There are many extract recipes that prescribe steeping grains for a 30 min hot steep. This is no different.



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Offline goose

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Re: Handling Dark Malts For Black IPA
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2021, 08:03:35 am »
Why would it?
+1. There are many extract recipes that prescribe steeping grains for a 30 min hot steep. This is no different.



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Good point.  I was just curious on this especially iif you re heating the wort to boiling while collecting.  If that isn't being done, then I agree, there probably wouldn't be much difference, if any.
Goose Steingass
Wooster, OH
Society of Akron Area Zymurgists (SAAZ)
Wayne County Brew Club
Mansfield Brew Club
BJCP Certified