[Iliff Ave]

+1

We stopped at Sierra Nevada in Mills River, NC and I tried their 2021 Octoberfest a couple of weeks ago. Not a fan of this year's version. I hope they get back to the collaboration version.

Do they not have a set recipe for this? They change it every year? Is this the case with most brewers? How about Boston Beer Company?

No, it's different every year. Often they partner with a German brewery.  This year they didn't.

They didn't  last year either.

How does the partnership work? What input do the German breweries have in making the beer? And why do they do this?
Obviously, they decided not to work with them the last two years.

How does any collaboration work?

[dbeechum]

How does any collaboration work?

Two breweries discuss a rough recipe and technique and then the breweries get together with the head brewers farting around with pints, taking pics of themselves throwing hops into the kettle while the younger brewers do the work?

[Bel Air Brewing]

Looks like no one has an answer to the serious questions posed in #119.

The biggest question to ask is why would Sierra Nevada want to do this in the first place? Can they not make the beer they want to, without outside help?
And why did they discontinue working with the Germans?

Or maybe, just maybe...the Germans simply said "Nicht mehr".

Would Anheuser-Busch partner with Molson-Coors to produce a seasonal beer?

Would General Motors partner with Ford Motor Company to produce a new sports car?

[ynotbrusum]

Marketing.  But I must say many times the collab beer is wonderful, so maybe some synergy is achieved.

[roger]

Marketing for sure. Of course they can make any beer style without a collaboration, but having a Bavarian brewery's name attached to one of their beers likely gives a temporary bump to sales. Not from those of us who appreciate the style but from the vast majority of the beer guzzling public who are just curious. They try one before ordering their typical "Double Hazy Pumpkin Shandy." 

And it boils down to sales. As always, follow the money. Had these beers, which have been described as "wonderful" on this thread (I agree), sold better and SN was making money, they would still be in production.

Breweries are a business, and provide their customers the product(s) they desire and are willing to buy.

[hopfenundmalz]

Looks like no one has an answer to the serious questions posed in #119.

The biggest question to ask is why would Sierra Nevada want to do this in the first place? Can they not make the beer they want to, without outside help?
And why did they discontinue working with the Germans?

Or maybe, just maybe...the Germans simply said "Nicht mehr".

Would Anheuser-Busch partner with Molson-Coors to produce a seasonal beer?

Would General Motors partner with Ford Motor Company to produce a new sports car?

The SN folks have been going to Germany for years. Hop selection and equipment sourcing trips, for example. Then there is Drinktek (SP). Brewers start friendships. Sierra Nevada is known to be excellent in quality and technichnology. I bumped into the brewer at Mahrs in Bamberg, and he was really excited to have been selected that year, had his Sierra Nevada baseball cap on.

Some of the collaboration brews used malts sourced with the breweries, Steffi for example. There was an older hop used one year, and when they worked with Bitburg the used the Bitburg yeast and hop blend.

Why did they stop? My take is that there were too many other things to take care of. The selection would have happened before Covid hit. The Germans saying no? Turn down the trip to the release event in the USA? I don't think so.

Car companies do work on joint projects fairly often, but not image cars like a sports car. GM and Ford have done joint development on a couple of transmissions (a huge investment), for example. I remember joint projects for different delivery vans.

[Bel Air Brewing]

Looks like no one has an answer to the serious questions posed in #119.

The biggest question to ask is why would Sierra Nevada want to do this in the first place? Can they not make the beer they want to, without outside help?
And why did they discontinue working with the Germans?

Or maybe, just maybe...the Germans simply said "Nicht mehr".

Would Anheuser-Busch partner with Molson-Coors to produce a seasonal beer?

Would General Motors partner with Ford Motor Company to produce a new sports car?

The SN folks have been going to Germany for years. Hop selection and equipment sourcing trips, for example. Then there is Drinktek (SP). Brewers start friendships. Sierra Nevada is known to be excellent in quality and technichnology. I bumped into the brewer at Mahrs in Bamberg, and he was really excited to have been selected that year, had his Sierra Nevada baseball cap on.

Some of the collaboration brews used malts sourced with the breweries, Steffi for example. There was an older hop used one year, and when they worked with Bitburg the used the Bitburg yeast and hop blend.

Why did they stop? My take is that there were too many other things to take care of. The selection would have happened before Covid hit. The Germans saying no? Turn down the trip to the release event in the USA? I don't think so.

Car companies do work on joint projects fairly often, but not image cars like a sports car. GM and Ford have done joint development on a couple of transmissions (a huge investment), for example. I remember joint projects for different delivery vans.

Thanks for your input. Very interesting, and good to know!
I wish the Bitburger collaborated beer would have made it to my refrigerator.

[Iliff Ave]

How does any collaboration work?

Two breweries discuss a rough recipe and technique and then the breweries get together with the head brewers farting around with pints, taking pics of themselves throwing hops into the kettle while the younger brewers do the work?

Ha! I was being a bit sarcastic. This thread is awesome!

[denny]

Looks like no one has an answer to the serious questions posed in #119.

The biggest question to ask is why would Sierra Nevada want to do this in the first place? Can they not make the beer they want to, without outside help?
And why did they discontinue working with the Germans?

Or maybe, just maybe...the Germans simply said "Nicht mehr".

Would Anheuser-Busch partner with Molson-Coors to produce a seasonal beer?

Would General Motors partner with Ford Motor Company to produce a new sports car?

Nope.  For one thing, you're assuming German breweries are monolithic and would all do the same thing.  It's simply marketing for both breweries.  Plus maybe a fun project.  Don't let your romantic notions get in the way of simple reality.

[fredthecat]

Don't let your romantic notions get in the way of simple reality.

lol, we're in a thread debating the differences between festbier and maerzen and clearly inferior american malts  . the whole thread is about romantic notions.

[BrewBama]

[Bel Air Brewing]

Well...not sure about romantic notions, but I developed a very fond relationship with Bitburger during my time spent in Mainz and Frankfurt.

[tommymorris]

Don't let your romantic notions get in the way of simple reality.

lol, we're in a thread debating the differences between festbier and maerzen and clearly inferior american malts  . the whole thread is about romantic notions.

I think the idea that European malts are superior to American malts is a romantic notion. Intended for different purposes, sure, but neither is superior or inferior.

[denny]

Don't let your romantic notions get in the way of simple reality.

lol, we're in a thread debating the differences between festbier and maerzen and clearly inferior american malts  . the whole thread is about romantic notions.

I think the idea that European malts are superior to American malts is a romantic notion. Intended for different purposes, sure, but neither is superior or inferior.

Or that German beer is superior.  It's different, it's good, but it's not necessarily better in any objective way. 

[Village Taphouse]

Or that German beer is superior.  It's different, it's good, but it's not necessarily better in any objective way.

That's a tough one.  If you were in Munich, your everyday beer would be some kind of helles that was made by a brewery that makes excellent beer.  If you were in many American towns and cities, "everyday" beer might be Coors or Bud or Miller (or Corona or Heineken or Modelo or whatever) and I would personally say that the well-made helles is far superior.  That might not be fair because even though they're "everyday" beers, they're not really the same.  The US makes styles that are not made in Germany and I happen to know that many Germans (and Czechs and Austrians) are loving hoppy US styles so in Germany they might say that OUR beer is better primarily because it's harder for them to get.  I sat at a table in Vienna drinking US-inspired IPA and everyone sitting with us mentioned how much they like it.  When I was thinking of "everyday" beer drinkers I envisioned St. Louis because it's the home of Bud.  But Urban Chestnut is also in St. Louis and makes a lot of fantastic German-inspired beers including a Zwickl and a Pilsner that are absolutely fantastic.  If they make a Marzen or Festbier, my guess is that it's outstanding.