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Author Topic: American Märzen  (Read 11039 times)

Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: American Märzen
« Reply #75 on: September 08, 2021, 08:36:46 am »
I think that there are some cowboys out there who think they know what's up and they don't.  If someone were to look at a Marzen (bringing the thread full-circle now) they could conclude that all you need to make that beer is American 2-row and some amount of C60 and call it a day.  No.  I understand how they could reach that conclusion but with some amount of time and with some recipe finesse they would know that it's not just the way the beer looks that you're after.  The guy that made this dunkel just thought to himself "DARK" and off he went.  A dunkel is not supposed to taste like that.  Some experienced brewers here who have also been to breweries in Europe have mentioned seeing large bottles of sinamar there.  That seems strange but I don't necessarily doubt it.  I have made my own sinamar and I have also held the darker grains back and added them at the end of the mash where you get some flavor and a lot of color.  A dunkel should not taste like the bottom of your smoker.  :P
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Offline BrewBama

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Re: American Märzen
« Reply #76 on: September 08, 2021, 09:02:34 am »
… American malt does not taste like German malt.  …

I agree with this. Different cultivars, different growing conditions, different growing practices produce different flavor profiles.



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Offline denny

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Re: American Märzen
« Reply #77 on: September 08, 2021, 09:50:15 am »
… American malt does not taste like German malt.  …

I agree with this. Different cultivars, different growing conditions, different growing practices produce different flavor profiles.



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I think the statement needs to be qualified as "American malt I've tried", unless you guys have tried them all.
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Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: American Märzen
« Reply #78 on: September 08, 2021, 11:58:51 am »
… American malt does not taste like German malt.  …

I agree with this. Different cultivars, different growing conditions, different growing practices produce different flavor profiles.



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I think the statement needs to be qualified as "American malt I've tried", unless you guys have tried them all.

My experience with American Malt is almost zero. Can someone help point out the glaring differences? I would like to try some, say a good quality Pils malt, for example.

Offline denny

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Re: American Märzen
« Reply #79 on: September 08, 2021, 12:21:34 pm »
… American malt does not taste like German malt.  …

I agree with this. Different cultivars, different growing conditions, different growing practices produce different flavor profiles.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I think the statement needs to be qualified as "American malt I've tried", unless you guys have tried them all.

My experience with American Malt is almost zero. Can someone help point out the glaring differences? I would like to try some, say a good quality Pils malt, for example.

Being in TX, you might look into Root Shoot from CO.  Gold Rush malt in Baker OR took first place in the Malt Cup for both their pale and pils malts.  I tend to avoid the malts from the "mega maltsters".
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline BrewBama

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American Märzen
« Reply #80 on: September 08, 2021, 12:23:12 pm »
… American malt does not taste like German malt.  …

I agree with this. Different cultivars, different growing conditions, different growing practices produce different flavor profiles.



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I think the statement needs to be qualified as "American malt I've tried", unless you guys have tried them all.
Fair enough.

It’s interesting you are easily convinced hops have terroir but evidently not grain. Throw in some different genetics plus the terroir and I believe the taste is different.

Not one better than the other …just different.

Being in TX, you might look into Root Shoot from CO.  Gold Rush malt in Baker OR took first place in the Malt Cup for both their pale and pils malts.  I tend to avoid the malts from the "mega maltsters".

If one malt is not different than another why have a malt cup or avoid a mega maltster?  There wouldn’t be any difference.

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« Last Edit: September 08, 2021, 12:37:09 pm by BrewBama »

Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: American Märzen
« Reply #81 on: September 08, 2021, 12:29:21 pm »
… American malt does not taste like German malt.  …

I agree with this. Different cultivars, different growing conditions, different growing practices produce different flavor profiles.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I think the statement needs to be qualified as "American malt I've tried", unless you guys have tried them all.

My experience with American Malt is almost zero. Can someone help point out the glaring differences? I would like to try some, say a good quality Pils malt, for example.

Being in TX, you might look into Root Shoot from CO.  Gold Rush malt in Baker OR took first place in the Malt Cup for both their pale and pils malts.  I tend to avoid the malts from the "mega maltsters".

Thanks! I will research these.

Offline Steve Ruch

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Re: American Märzen
« Reply #82 on: September 08, 2021, 12:43:11 pm »
Quote
I agree with this. Different cultivars, different growing conditions, different growing practices produce different flavor profiles.

If one malt is not different than another why have a malt cup or avoid a mega maltster?  There wouldn’t be any difference.

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[/quote]
The different maltsters do often end up with a difference in the final products due to proprietary processes.
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Offline BrewBama

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American Märzen
« Reply #83 on: September 08, 2021, 12:56:13 pm »
Quote
I agree with this. Different cultivars, different growing conditions, different growing practices produce different flavor profiles.

If one malt is not different than another why have a malt cup or avoid a mega maltster?  There wouldn’t be any difference.

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The different maltsters do often end up with a difference in the final products due to proprietary processes.


I agree with this also. Last time I checked domestic and continental maltsters are different. Therefore, the malts taste different.



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« Last Edit: September 08, 2021, 01:07:08 pm by BrewBama »

Offline denny

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Re: American Märzen
« Reply #84 on: September 08, 2021, 01:41:44 pm »
… American malt does not taste like German malt.  …

I agree with this. Different cultivars, different growing conditions, different growing practices produce different flavor profiles.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I think the statement needs to be qualified as "American malt I've tried", unless you guys have tried them all.
Fair enough.

It’s interesting you are easily convinced hops have terroir but evidently not grain. Throw in some different genetics plus the terroir and I believe the taste is different.

Not one better than the other …just different.

Being in TX, you might look into Root Shoot from CO.  Gold Rush malt in Baker OR took first place in the Malt Cup for both their pale and pils malts.  I tend to avoid the malts from the "mega maltsters".

If one malt is not different than another why have a malt cup or avoid a mega maltster?  There wouldn’t be any difference.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I think terroir definitely affects grain as much as it does hops.  I certainly didn't mean to imply there was no difference.  There's a huge difference.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: American Märzen
« Reply #85 on: September 08, 2021, 01:47:44 pm »
Back in the day I remember people suggesting that you use American 2-row or American Pilsner malt if you wanted to make an "American Lager" because most everyday beer drinkers that are used to American Lager would think that a beer made with Euro malts has too much flavor.  I have to say that I never tried it but imagine a beer made with American 2-row, maybe some Vienna or Munich so the beer doesn't look like Zima, some flake corn, etc.  It would probably taste like bland, American beer.  :P
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Offline denny

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Re: American Märzen
« Reply #86 on: September 08, 2021, 02:00:39 pm »
Back in the day I remember people suggesting that you use American 2-row or American Pilsner malt if you wanted to make an "American Lager" because most everyday beer drinkers that are used to American Lager would think that a beer made with Euro malts has too much flavor.  I have to say that I never tried it but imagine a beer made with American 2-row, maybe some Vienna or Munich so the beer doesn't look like Zima, some flake corn, etc.  It would probably taste like bland, American beer.  :P

That was before the proliferation of craft malt.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: American Märzen
« Reply #87 on: September 08, 2021, 03:04:05 pm »
Back in the day I remember people suggesting that you use American 2-row or American Pilsner malt if you wanted to make an "American Lager" because most everyday beer drinkers that are used to American Lager would think that a beer made with Euro malts has too much flavor.  I have to say that I never tried it but imagine a beer made with American 2-row, maybe some Vienna or Munich so the beer doesn't look like Zima, some flake corn, etc.  It would probably taste like bland, American beer.  :P

That was before the proliferation of craft malt.
That's true.  I have used some Full Pint Pilsner as well as Rahr and Briess Pilsen malt (the Briess Pilsen malt was on sale at LP for $29 a sack!  I couldn't afford NOT to buy it :P) and those malts made decent beer here.  But when I buy something like Pilsner malt, I don't like to be surprised.  Best Malz, Swaen and Avangard have made excellent beers here and not just German-style beers but Mexican-style and US styles too.  Occasionally I'll get lucky and find Weyermann Barke Pils at a decent price too.   
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline Saccharomyces

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Re: American Märzen
« Reply #88 on: September 08, 2021, 03:43:03 pm »
That's true.  I have used some Full Pint Pilsner as well as Rahr and Briess Pilsen malt (the Briess Pilsen malt was on sale at LP for $29 a sack!  I couldn't afford NOT to buy it :P) and those malts made decent beer here.  But when I buy something like Pilsner malt, I don't like to be surprised.  Best Malz, Swaen and Avangard have made excellent beers here and not just German-style beers but Mexican-style and US styles too.  Occasionally I'll get lucky and find Weyermann Barke Pils at a decent price too.

I stock two base malts in my brewery; namely, Avangard Pilsner and British Pale.  My current British Pale is Fawcett Golden Promise, which is amazingly good considering the fact that people prefer Simpsons.  However, I am focused on brewing the styles that I cannot easily acquire fresh.  Avangard Pilsner is an amazing versitile base malt.  It has enough "graham cracker" to make German styles, but not enough to restrict its use to those styles.  I have used craft malt from Riverbend (Southern Select, Appalachian Wheat, and Carolina Rye).  While better than Briess, that is not a high bar to hurdle.

Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: American Märzen
« Reply #89 on: September 08, 2021, 03:52:17 pm »
Agree on the Avangard Pilsner and also the Fawcett GP.  I found a sack of that GP at one of my local supply houses and I believe the sack was close to $100.  Yes, I bought it and it made outstanding bitters, ESB, Pale Ales, etc.  I will take a flyer on things occasionally but I do not want a full sack of malt that I don't care for so I tend to stick to what I know. 
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.