Author Topic: Chill haze...  (Read 995 times)

Offline Village Taphouse

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Chill haze...
« on: September 08, 2021, 10:29:16 am »
I'm quite certain this has been covered but on a recent helles that was on tap here I could see a noticeable difference between the beer's clarity when the glass was first tapped (mildly hazy) and then how clear the beer was when it warmed up a little bit.  So what rocks do I need to turn over to attack a clear sign of chill haze?  Some searches mentioned serving the beer at 55° (I admit I serve my beers cold) and to use whirfloc and also Biofine or gel (both of which I do).  I should also mention that I have been making some changes lately that may have actually improved on this issue... the helles was brewed in June and prior to the changes.  Has anyone made specific changes that improved this issue?  Cheers Beerheads.
Ken from Chicago. 
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Offline neuse

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Re: Chill haze...
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2021, 11:44:07 am »
Letting it sit cold for several days pretty much takes care of chill haze when I get it. I bottle condition, so for me that means leaving the bottles in the fridge for a week. I guess it would take longer in a keg since there is more distance for the particles to drop. (Note: I don't have room in my fridge for that many bottles, so I only do this once in a while.)

Offline neuse

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Re: Chill haze...
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2021, 11:48:50 am »
In this thread https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=36778.new;topicseen#new Narcout posted a link to a graph in Principles of Brewing Science that helped me. You might find it useful.

Offline BrewBama

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Chill haze...
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2021, 11:50:38 am »
I know many will disagree and that’s OK. These are my thoughts:

How long has this beer cold conditioned/lagered?  I believe time in the cold will drop the proteins and tannins out of suspension.

Was the wort clear when transferred to the boil kettle?  I believe leaving behind proteins and tannins in the mash tun contributes to clear beer.

Did you boil this wort an hour?  I believe an hour boil gives more opportunity for protein and tannin removal. 

Did you cool quickly?  I believe a quick chill to pitch temp aids in protein dropping out of solution.

When you used gelatin was the beer cold?  I believe gelatin works best when the beer is cold and chill haze has forms.

Also, yeast selection. Some yeast just drop brighter than others.

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« Last Edit: September 08, 2021, 11:52:13 am by BrewBama »

Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Chill haze...
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2021, 11:52:07 am »
Thanks.  My beers are kegged and then left cold for weeks and sometimes months.  This helles was particularly interesting because I was close to (and eventually AT) the end of the keg.  The beer would be slightly hazy in the glass and by the time I was halfway through it the beer was crystal clear.  The issue is that I have no idea specifically what it is... the way I mash, a mash pH, a boil pH, etc.  I typically get very clear wort into the fermenter with very little trub so that part seems okay.  I will keep digging but I'm hoping someone on here tackled this topic and found a source of the problem.  Cheers.
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Chill haze...
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2021, 11:59:51 am »
I know many will disagree and that’s OK. These are my thoughts:

How long has this beer cold conditioned/lagered?  I believe time in the cold will drop the proteins and tannins out of suspension.
Was the wort clear when transferred to the boil kettle?  I believe leaving behind proteins and tannins in the mash tun contributes to clear beer.
Did you boil this wort an hour?  I believe an hour boil gives more opportunity for protein and tannin removal. 
Did you cool quickly?  I believe a quick chill to pitch temp aids in protein dropping out of solution.
When you used gelatin was the beer cold?  I believe gelatin works best when the beer is cold and chill haze has forms.
Also, yeast selection. Some yeast just drop brighter than others.
1. The beer was brewed on 6/27 and the keg just blew on Monday.  So the keg sat cold (say, from 7/7) for two months before it was emptied.
2. The wort is almost always crystal clear going into the fermenter.  Occasionally it's mildly hazy and I had that one with Kick Carageenan that was quite cloudy but that beer ended up being pretty clear going into the keg.
3. All of my boils are 30 minutes.  Could be a factor.
4. My chilling is with an immersion chiller so my chilling is VERY quick in the winter and spring and a little slower in the summer and fall but I typically get from boiling to about 75° (then an ice bath for as long as an hour after FO) in about 10 minutes.
5. Yes, gel solution is always added to cold beer (35° ish)
6. The yeast might be in question but I feel like it's not yeast strain-dependent.  This helles was 2124.  Maybe I should get some 2278 (high-floccing) and see what happens there.  Thanks BB. 
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline Richard

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Re: Chill haze...
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2021, 12:52:45 pm »
If prevention doesn't work you can try Brewer's Clarex to eliminate the haze. It is sold by White Labs as Clarity Ferm, and also by CellarScience as Clearzyme. You just add the enzyme at the same time as you add your yeast. I use it for reducing gluten, but chill haze elimination was the original intent.

https://www.morebeer.com/products/white-labs-clarity-ferm-10-ml.html
https://www.morebeer.com/products/cellarscience-clearzyme-placeholder.html
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Offline kramerog

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Re: Chill haze...
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2021, 12:55:17 pm »
In this thread https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=36778.new;topicseen#new Narcout posted a link to a graph in Principles of Brewing Science that helped me. You might find it useful.
Neuse, are you implying that a small amount of biofine is the way to go as it removes haze active proteins without touching the foam active proteins?

Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Chill haze...
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2021, 01:01:41 pm »
If prevention doesn't work you can try Brewer's Clarex to eliminate the haze. It is sold by White Labs as Clarity Ferm, and also by CellarScience as Clearzyme. You just add the enzyme at the same time as you add your yeast. I use it for reducing gluten, but chill haze elimination was the original intent.

https://www.morebeer.com/products/white-labs-clarity-ferm-10-ml.html
https://www.morebeer.com/products/cellarscience-clearzyme-placeholder.html
Thanks for that.  I actually have some of that Clearzyme and it didn't seem to do much for me plus the small bottle was about $20.  I stopped using it thinking it was not working but maybe I'll just finish the bottle.  Thanks again. 
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline neuse

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Re: Chill haze...
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2021, 03:10:25 pm »
In this thread https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=36778.new;topicseen#new Narcout posted a link to a graph in Principles of Brewing Science that helped me. You might find it useful.
Neuse, are you implying that a small amount of biofine is the way to go as it removes haze active proteins without touching the foam active proteins?
Sorry - the graph was shown in the post, not as a link. My comment was about Irish Moss. I was referring to reply #115: "There are two interesting graphs in Principles of Brewing Science that show the relative effects of both Irish Moss and silica gel on haze active and foam active proteins." I used the Irish Moss graph and settled on the 1/12 dosage rate.

Offline Saccharomyces

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Re: Chill haze...
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2021, 03:28:25 pm »
If prevention doesn't work you can try Brewer's Clarex to eliminate the haze. It is sold by White Labs as Clarity Ferm, and also by CellarScience as Clearzyme. You just add the enzyme at the same time as you add your yeast. I use it for reducing gluten, but chill haze elimination was the original intent.

I used Clearzyme for the first time on my Festbier.  Clearzyme in the fermentation combined with gelatin at time of kegging has given me the clearest beer I have ever made.  The beer was clear after three days in the keg.

Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Chill haze...
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2021, 03:53:58 pm »
I have about a half bottle of Clearzyme left so I will go back to using it and see how it goes.  IIRC, it also had a BEST BY date... or else the instructions said something weird like "Once you open the bottle, use the rest as quickly as possible".  What?  There's got to be enough in the bottle for 20 batches.  As quick as possible?  :P

Does anyone think that it's possible for there to be a bug in one's process to the point that the Clearzyme would be rendered useless?  Could a mash issue or pH issue or boil intensity issue create a problem that Clearzyme couldn't solve?
« Last Edit: September 08, 2021, 03:58:28 pm by Village Taphouse »
Ken from Chicago. 
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Offline Richard

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Re: Chill haze...
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2021, 05:29:11 pm »
The recommended shelf life of Clearzyme is 12 months once the package is opened. I bought the 1 oz bottle for $20, which is good for about 30 batches. There is no way I will do 30 batches in 12 months, but even if I only do 10 it is cheaper that way. That would be $2.00 per batch compared to $3.99 for a 1 ml vial of Clearzyme for each batch or $4.99 for a vial of Clarity Ferm.
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Offline BrewNerd

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Re: Chill haze...
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2021, 10:20:52 am »
Obviously on the far end of the experience spectrum compared to a professional brewer but I find it oddly comforting/ inspiring that nobody has all the answers. We're all chasing that perfect pint.

Since you bring good beer into the world, I wish you the best of luck. Thank you for sharing.

Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Chill haze...
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2021, 11:01:40 am »
Obviously on the far end of the experience spectrum compared to a professional brewer but I find it oddly comforting/ inspiring that nobody has all the answers. We're all chasing that perfect pint.

Since you bring good beer into the world, I wish you the best of luck. Thank you for sharing.
The interesting thing about homebrewing is that there are a lot of variables and many, many brewers brew their batches by themselves which means they may not see what others do.  We all have different water, equipment, processes, we use different malts, etc. and so it seems like there are always questions.  Some here have more answers than others and thank Jeebus for that because the rest of us rely on those who get deeper into the subject.  I had heard about this Clearzyme product awhile back and bought a bottle and it seemed to do me NO good.  But I have made some other adjustments since then so I might try it again and then check the chill haze situation. 
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.