Author Topic: Young's (Style) Chocolate Stout Suggestions  (Read 224 times)

Offline fredthecat

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Young's (Style) Chocolate Stout Suggestions
« on: September 15, 2021, 02:44:31 AM »
I decided I'm making a young's chocolate stout inspired beer.

i want a smooth, semi-sweet but balanced, milk to baking chocolate flavoured beer of about 5%.

using WLP002 because that's what I have on hand when I brew it.

I've got 74% golden promise, 9% 40L crystal, 2% 80l crystal, 5% simpsons chocolate malt, 5% pale chocolate malt and 5% invert syrup. looking at an OG of 1.049 and FG around 1.014 for ~72% attenuation.

22 IBU

I believe young's uses chocolate in it. should i leave it with this or should I use cacaonibs? I'm not looking for an EXTREME chocolate flavour, but a notable direction towards chocolate flavours in a semi-sweet porter/stout.

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Young's (Style) Chocolate Stout Suggestions
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2021, 11:44:11 AM »
Okay, let's figure this out.

Overall recipe looks very good.  Personally I might use more of the chocolate malts and cut the Crystal 40 in half.

If your invert sugar is black, that's great.  If not, the final beer color might end up a little too light.  In any case, use software to ensure you're getting the color you want.

You probably will not hit 1.014 FG with this yeast.  It's a low attenuator.  You can add more invert sugar, if it's not black, or more simple white sugars.  However, instead, I'd probably use more malt (higher OG), or mash low and slow at 148 F for 90 minutes or more to try to encourage the yeast to eat a little more.

I would not bother with cacao nibs, they are too mild in flavor, and more nutty than chocolatey.  I'd go straight for unsweetened bakers cocoa powder, about 4-6 ounces in 5-6 gallons, so I guess that's close to 1 oz/gallon.  I'd add it at flameout or with 5 minutes left in the boil.  I've done this a few times with good success.

If you tell me what approximate Lovibond for your invert sugar, I can give you a better stab at a recipe.  :)
Dave

The world will become a much more pleasant place to live when each and every one of us realizes that we are all idiots.

Offline roger

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Re: Young's (Style) Chocolate Stout Suggestions
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2021, 03:00:33 PM »
Some thoughts from the peanut gallery.  ::)

The objective is:
i want a smooth, semi-sweet but balanced, milk to baking chocolate flavoured beer of about 5%

AFAIK, Young's Double Chocolate is a Milk (or cream) Stout. If that's your intent, 1 lb (for 5 Gal) of Lactose will be needed. Young's is not too sweet in my experience.

The invert will dry the beer somewhat. If I understand the objective correctly, I wonder how this fits with "semi-sweet." Of course when adding Lactose and using that yeast, it may end up being too sweet. Its all about the balance you want.

The color seems too light for Young's, so increasing the amount of chocolate malts (450L) will help. But when increasing chocolate malts, my beers tend to get a coffee taste, which may or may not be desirable.

Alternatively, consider using up to about 5% Simpsons Black Malt(600L) along with some Chocolate malt. From Simpson's website, "Our Black Malt is excellent for darkening beer colour without imparting too much astringency or roast characteristics. The flavour is surprisingly neutral, with a clean dryness that makes it an incredibly versatile product." This sounds like the flavor matches your objective while adding some color to meet the style (if that's important). I have found it tends to darken the foam, which you may or may not enjoy. Carafa malt might work as well, if that's what you have on hand.

Dave Taylor's comments on the chocolate match my experiences. Even when roasting the cacao nibs, they don't add much chocolate flavor. Adding a vanilla bean with the cocoa powder sounds strange, but I find it tends to accentuate the chocolate flavor.

A similar beer is on my list for December. We really enjoy it.
Roger

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Young's (Style) Chocolate Stout Suggestions
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2021, 03:44:17 PM »
I would not recommend any lactose in this beer.  I thought about it, but given the very low attenuation of the WLP002 yeast, I don't think it will need any.  If you use any lactose at all, I'd use only 4-6 ounces at most (assuming 5-6 gallons).  But still I don't recommend it with this particular yeast.  A pound would be oh-my-goodness cloyingly sweet.
Dave

The world will become a much more pleasant place to live when each and every one of us realizes that we are all idiots.

Offline roger

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Re: Young's (Style) Chocolate Stout Suggestions
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2021, 04:18:24 PM »
Thanks for catching that. I somehow forgot which yeast the OP is using.

I don't remember trying that much crystal malt with WLP002 for this style, normally using more attenuative yeast strains like S-04 or Wyeast 1332, and using a smaller amount of dark crystal along with the Lactose.

I'm curious how the resulting beers would differ using both methods.
Roger

Offline fredthecat

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Re: Young's (Style) Chocolate Stout Suggestions
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2021, 08:55:41 PM »
Okay, let's figure this out.

Overall recipe looks very good.  Personally I might use more of the chocolate malts and cut the Crystal 40 in half.

If your invert sugar is black, that's great.  If not, the final beer color might end up a little too light.  In any case, use software to ensure you're getting the color you want.

You probably will not hit 1.014 FG with this yeast.  It's a low attenuator.  You can add more invert sugar, if it's not black, or more simple white sugars.  However, instead, I'd probably use more malt (higher OG), or mash low and slow at 148 F for 90 minutes or more to try to encourage the yeast to eat a little more.

I would not bother with cacao nibs, they are too mild in flavor, and more nutty than chocolatey.  I'd go straight for unsweetened bakers cocoa powder, about 4-6 ounces in 5-6 gallons, so I guess that's close to 1 oz/gallon.  I'd add it at flameout or with 5 minutes left in the boil.  I've done this a few times with good success.

If you tell me what approximate Lovibond for your invert sugar, I can give you a better stab at a recipe.  :)

im not concerned about the colour. i think any SRM about 30 is fine for this. i'm aiming for chocolate taste.

the way i mash i tend to get highly fermentable worts more than not. with 5% invert syrup (not black at all, just homemade inverted and cooked for 2 minutes sucrose) i think i can hit 72-74%.

i read somewhere on this forum that cocoa powder didn't work well, though on the can of youngs' ingredients it says "cocoa" or "chocolate" i cant remember. i might just leave it all out as i tend to rarely ever use non-malt/sugar/hops as ingredients.

admittedly i've never used pale chocolate malt before, but i thought this would be a good way to try it. i read in a few places that you have to limit it to max 5%. so if anything i might boost the chocolate just slightly to 7% or so, getting an SRM of about 34, again not that important.

Some thoughts from the peanut gallery.  ::)

The objective is:
i want a smooth, semi-sweet but balanced, milk to baking chocolate flavoured beer of about 5%

AFAIK, Young's Double Chocolate is a Milk (or cream) Stout. If that's your intent, 1 lb (for 5 Gal) of Lactose will be needed. Young's is not too sweet in my experience.

The invert will dry the beer somewhat. If I understand the objective correctly, I wonder how this fits with "semi-sweet." Of course when adding Lactose and using that yeast, it may end up being too sweet. Its all about the balance you want.

The color seems too light for Young's, so increasing the amount of chocolate malts (450L) will help. But when increasing chocolate malts, my beers tend to get a coffee taste, which may or may not be desirable.

Alternatively, consider using up to about 5% Simpsons Black Malt(600L) along with some Chocolate malt. From Simpson's website, "Our Black Malt is excellent for darkening beer colour without imparting too much astringency or roast characteristics. The flavour is surprisingly neutral, with a clean dryness that makes it an incredibly versatile product." This sounds like the flavor matches your objective while adding some color to meet the style (if that's important). I have found it tends to darken the foam, which you may or may not enjoy. Carafa malt might work as well, if that's what you have on hand.

Dave Taylor's comments on the chocolate match my experiences. Even when roasting the cacao nibs, they don't add much chocolate flavor. Adding a vanilla bean with the cocoa powder sounds strange, but I find it tends to accentuate the chocolate flavor.

A similar beer is on my list for December. We really enjoy it.

have you ever had youngs chocolate stout before?

Offline roger

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Re: Young's (Style) Chocolate Stout Suggestions
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2021, 10:09:06 PM »
Yes, we have it regularly.

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Roger

Offline roger

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Re: Young's (Style) Chocolate Stout Suggestions
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2021, 12:30:54 PM »
The is a style description here.

https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/664/73/


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Roger