Author Topic: Wry Smile water details?  (Read 916 times)

Offline Joe_Beer

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Wry Smile water details?
« on: October 05, 2021, 12:22:54 pm »
I was poking around the recipe section of HBA (member's) and stumbled over Wry Smile and thought I'd give it a shot this week. There doesn't seem to be a water profile listed for the recipe. I've only been brewing about a year, so don't have enough experience with minerals to just wing it.  Found another person (kgs) using the forum search who brewed this back in 2017 but no follow-up on how it turned out.

I've kind of decided on using distilled water for brewing since the HC03 out of my tap is ~450. I've been using the "light colored and hoppy" profile  on the Brewers Friend calculator (https://www.brewersfriend.com/water-chemistry/) to brew my past few batches as they have been, well, light colored, and hoppy, but this one maybe falls into the "Balanced" profile? SRM 12 is definitely darker than what I've been brewing (SRM 4-6).

Also, would sparge/no-sparge make any noticeable difference on this recipe? I'm guessing as long as the pre-boil gravity is spot on, it shouldn't?


Offline denny

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Re: Wry Smile water details?
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2021, 01:01:14 pm »
I've never done it no sparge, so I can't say.  But I doubt it.

I use my well water and add a tsp. of gypsum to the kettle.  I'll post my water profile later when I'm at a computer.
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Offline denny

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Re: Wry Smile water details?
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2021, 01:02:27 pm »
Here ya go....

pH 7.4
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est 164
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.27
Cations / Anions, me/L 2.8 / 2.7
               ppm
Sodium, Na 11
Potassium, K 2
Calcium, Ca 34
Magnesium, Mg 7
Total Hardness, CaCO3 114
Nitrate, NO3-N < 0.1 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 19
Chloride, Cl 3
Carbonate, CO3 < 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 90
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 74
"<" - Not Detected / Below Detection Limit
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline Joe_Beer

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Re: Wry Smile water details?
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2021, 04:21:36 am »

Offline Joe_Beer

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Re: Wry Smile water details?
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2021, 05:29:17 am »
I tried a few target profiles in BF and the "Balanced" profile started out close to what Denny's water profile shows. BF recommends a higer S04 and I've read that hops and bitterness perception is most affected by the S04/Cl ratio. I enjoy hoppy beers, so kept the recommended S04 and set the other targets to match the profile. Also keeping the 1tsp of Gypsum.

I'm not sure how much of this really matters... A half-gram of chalk brings the Ca+2 ions up to "green star" level, but this seeems to really be splitting hairs for the sake of numbers. I mean, boiling can cause a reduction in some of these minerals so if I miss the post-boil gravity and decide to boil another 30 minutes, the water profile is somewhat out of whack anyway.


 

Offline denny

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Re: Wry Smile water details?
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2021, 08:35:02 am »
Forget chalk.  Unless you dissolve it under CO2, you have no idea how much you're getting.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline Kevin

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Re: Wry Smile water details?
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2021, 06:47:55 am »
My keg of wry smile just kicked last night :( it is by far my favorite IPA and I have made at least one batch every summer over the last dozen years.
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Offline Joe_Beer

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Re: Wry Smile water details?
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2021, 04:49:29 am »
Forget chalk.  Unless you dissolve it under CO2, you have no idea how much you're getting.

Thanks. Forgotten ;)

Question though, on the water: I've noticed most IPAs have a higher sulfate/chloride ratio than what I figured into the initial water profile. I've read about people adding gypsum or CaCl2 to a glass of beer (post keg) to dial in the bitterness or hop character. Should either of those have been higher for this style of beer or is the lower-than-typical-IPA s04/cl intentional here? Maybe I've been reading too much.

it is by far my favorite IPA and I have made at least one batch every summer over the last dozen years.

I've looked around and it sounds like a popular recipe. I'm looking forward to it. It's been fermenting for about a week (65F for 4 days, then up to 68F) and gravity is still dropping. That aroma coming out of that 1450 smack pack was something else! Like grape-floral-slight-alcohol-not-yeast-at-all smell. Took a small beer sample the other day and it's got a floral aroma and creamy texture ...as if half the grain bill was comprised of oats! I've been reading this is a characteristic of the yeast so kinda crazy to me as I've only used like four kinds of yeast.


Offline denny

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Re: Wry Smile water details?
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2021, 08:03:48 am »
Forget chalk.  Unless you dissolve it under CO2, you have no idea how much you're getting.

Thanks. Forgotten ;)

Question though, on the water: I've noticed most IPAs have a higher sulfate/chloride ratio than what I figured into the initial water profile. I've read about people adding gypsum or CaCl2 to a glass of beer (post keg) to dial in the bitterness or hop character. Should either of those have been higher for this style of beer or is the lower-than-typical-IPA s04/cl intentional here? Maybe I've been reading too much.

it is by far my favorite IPA and I have made at least one batch every summer over the last dozen years.

I've looked around and it sounds like a popular recipe. I'm looking forward to it. It's been fermenting for about a week (65F for 4 days, then up to 68F) and gravity is still dropping. That aroma coming out of that 1450 smack pack was something else! Like grape-floral-slight-alcohol-not-yeast-at-all smell. Took a small beer sample the other day and it's got a floral aroma and creamy texture ...as if half the grain bill was comprised of oats! I've been reading this is a characteristic of the yeast so kinda crazy to me as I've only used like four kinds of yeast.

You're over thinking it. When I developed the recipe, homebrew water treatment was pretty much unheard of and suflfate:chloride ratios had never been mentioned.  I did my standard IPA treatment, which was to add a tsp. of gypsum to the boil.  It worked, I loved the beer, so I've never had any reason to take it further.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Steve Ruch

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Re: Wry Smile water details?
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2021, 09:42:12 am »
Forget chalk.  Unless you dissolve it under CO2, you have no idea how much you're getting.

Thanks. Forgotten ;)

Question though, on the water: I've noticed most IPAs have a higher sulfate/chloride ratio than what I figured into the initial water profile. I've read about people adding gypsum or CaCl2 to a glass of beer (post keg) to dial in the bitterness or hop character. Should either of those have been higher for this style of beer or is the lower-than-typical-IPA s04/cl intentional here? Maybe I've been reading too much.

it is by far my favorite IPA and I have made at least one batch every summer over the last dozen years.

I've looked around and it sounds like a popular recipe. I'm looking forward to it. It's been fermenting for about a week (65F for 4 days, then up to 68F) and gravity is still dropping. That aroma coming out of that 1450 smack pack was something else! Like grape-floral-slight-alcohol-not-yeast-at-all smell. Took a small beer sample the other day and it's got a floral aroma and creamy texture ...as if half the grain bill was comprised of oats! I've been reading this is a characteristic of the yeast so kinda crazy to me as I've only used like four kinds of yeast.

You're over thinking it. When I developed the recipe, homebrew water treatment was pretty much unheard of and suflfate:chloride ratios had never been mentioned.  I did my standard IPA treatment, which was to add a tsp. of gypsum to the boil.  It worked, I loved the beer, so I've never had any reason to take it further.
There's a rye malt extract that allows non all-grain brewers to make this beer.
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Offline denny

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Re: Wry Smile water details?
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2021, 09:54:36 am »
Forget chalk.  Unless you dissolve it under CO2, you have no idea how much you're getting.

Thanks. Forgotten ;)

Question though, on the water: I've noticed most IPAs have a higher sulfate/chloride ratio than what I figured into the initial water profile. I've read about people adding gypsum or CaCl2 to a glass of beer (post keg) to dial in the bitterness or hop character. Should either of those have been higher for this style of beer or is the lower-than-typical-IPA s04/cl intentional here? Maybe I've been reading too much.

it is by far my favorite IPA and I have made at least one batch every summer over the last dozen years.

I've looked around and it sounds like a popular recipe. I'm looking forward to it. It's been fermenting for about a week (65F for 4 days, then up to 68F) and gravity is still dropping. That aroma coming out of that 1450 smack pack was something else! Like grape-floral-slight-alcohol-not-yeast-at-all smell. Took a small beer sample the other day and it's got a floral aroma and creamy texture ...as if half the grain bill was comprised of oats! I've been reading this is a characteristic of the yeast so kinda crazy to me as I've only used like four kinds of yeast.

You're over thinking it. When I developed the recipe, homebrew water treatment was pretty much unheard of and suflfate:chloride ratios had never been mentioned.  I did my standard IPA treatment, which was to add a tsp. of gypsum to the boil.  It worked, I loved the beer, so I've never had any reason to take it further.
There's a rye malt extract that allows non all-grain brewers to make this beer.

Yeah, I got to beta test it as it was being developed.  Almost perfectly mimics the Wry Smile grist.  I added a bit of sugar when I used it to hit FG.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Steve Ruch

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Re: Wry Smile water details?
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2021, 07:05:42 pm »
Forget chalk.  Unless you dissolve it under CO2, you have no idea how much you're getting.

Thanks. Forgotten ;)

Question though, on the water: I've noticed most IPAs have a higher sulfate/chloride ratio than what I figured into the initial water profile. I've read about people adding gypsum or CaCl2 to a glass of beer (post keg) to dial in the bitterness or hop character. Should either of those have been higher for this style of beer or is the lower-than-typical-IPA s04/cl intentional here? Maybe I've been reading too much.

it is by far my favorite IPA and I have made at least one batch every summer over the last dozen years.

I've looked around and it sounds like a popular recipe. I'm looking forward to it. It's been fermenting for about a week (65F for 4 days, then up to 68F) and gravity is still dropping. That aroma coming out of that 1450 smack pack was something else! Like grape-floral-slight-alcohol-not-yeast-at-all smell. Took a small beer sample the other day and it's got a floral aroma and creamy texture ...as if half the grain bill was comprised of oats! I've been reading this is a characteristic of the yeast so kinda crazy to me as I've only used like four kinds of yeast.

You're over thinking it. When I developed the recipe, homebrew water treatment was pretty much unheard of and suflfate:chloride ratios had never been mentioned.  I did my standard IPA treatment, which was to add a tsp. of gypsum to the boil.  It worked, I loved the beer, so I've never had any reason to take it further.
There's a rye malt extract that allows non all-grain brewers to make this beer.

Yeah, I got to beta test it as it was being developed.  Almost perfectly mimics the Wry Smile grist.  I added a bit of sugar when I used it to hit FG.
I was very happy with the results when I gave it a try. It was my first go with 1450.
I love to go swimmin'
with hairy old women

Offline Joe_Beer

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Re: Wry Smile water details?
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2021, 05:52:33 pm »
Yeah, I got to beta test it as it was being developed.  Almost perfectly mimics the Wry Smile grist.  I added a bit of sugar when I used it to hit FG.
I was very happy with the results when I gave it a try. It was my first go with 1450.

I just tapped mine tonight and have to say I'm quite pleased with it. Denny, this is an amazing recipe! I can't find a lot of aroma to it, and that's probably just me with my old nose, but oh man, it's got quite a spectrum of flavor! To stay on topic, I'll just say the water profile posted above seems to work quite nicely for this recipe and I'll use the same one again.




Offline denny

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Re: Wry Smile water details?
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2021, 08:25:36 am »
Yeah, I got to beta test it as it was being developed.  Almost perfectly mimics the Wry Smile grist.  I added a bit of sugar when I used it to hit FG.
I was very happy with the results when I gave it a try. It was my first go with 1450.

I just tapped mine tonight and have to say I'm quite pleased with it. Denny, this is an amazing recipe! I can't find a lot of aroma to it, and that's probably just me with my old nose, but oh man, it's got quite a spectrum of flavor! To stay on topic, I'll just say the water profile posted above seems to work quite nicely for this recipe and I'll use the same one again.

Glad you're enjoying it!
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell