Author Topic: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04  (Read 828 times)

Offline Saccharomyces

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1087
  • Deus ex machina
Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
« on: October 12, 2021, 11:31:05 pm »
Has anyone co-pitched US-05 and S-04?  I picked up a package of each while doing my domestic base malt run yesterday.   I wonder if the combination would have the attenuation level of US-05 and the flocculation of S-04?  I know how to keep S-04 in check, but I want a fruity beer with a dry finish and S-04 tends to poop out at 75% AA.  I want 80% AA.  That is not difficult with US-05.

Offline dannyjed

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1380
  • Toledo, OH
Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2021, 11:46:03 pm »
I have never used both before at the same time. I never cared for S-04 and haven’t used it in over 10 years. I used S-05 much more, but not recently. I always got 80% or higher attenuation with 05. Not sure how it would work in tandem with O4, but sounds like an interesting experiment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Dan Chisholm

Offline BrewBama

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4879
Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2021, 12:07:10 am »
I have been using Brutzyme to lower my FG.  I haven’t used it with -04 yet but I can vouch for it with Bry-97.

The MoreBeer pitch: “Amyloglucosidase, alpha amylase, and pullulanase enable the hydrolysis of starch and dextrins into fermentable sugars that yeast can ferment.”

It definitely dries the beer out. The results are crisp and clean. I am getting ~90%+AA which allows me to start lower so I get a low(er) carb beer. The Festbier I have on tap is ~8g carbs per 12 oz for a ~5% beer. My amber on deck is ~7g carbs in a 12 oz pour for a ~6% ABV beer.






Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: October 13, 2021, 01:27:35 am by BrewBama »
wisdom is proved right by her deeds

Brewed in the Tennessee Valley. Rocket City — Huntsville AL

Offline dmtaylor

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4380
  • Lord Idiot the Lazy
    • YEAST MASTER Perma-Living
Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2021, 12:08:51 am »
For my last several batches with S-04, they have attenuated to 78-80%.  This seems to be a different and much cleaner strain than it was historically.  Like the manufacturer pulled some kind of switcheroo on us.

So I don't think you'll get much benefit from S-04 actually in a co-pitch.  If anything, I find the new S-04 to be even cleaner and more lager-like than US-05, so it could be an even cleaner version of the beer than you might get from US-05 alone.
Dave

The world will become a much more pleasant place to live when each and every one of us realizes that we are all idiots.


Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 24783
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2021, 02:26:03 pm »
For my last several batches with S-04, they have attenuated to 78-80%.  This seems to be a different and much cleaner strain than it was historically.  Like the manufacturer pulled some kind of switcheroo on us.

So I don't think you'll get much benefit from S-04 actually in a co-pitch.  If anything, I find the new S-04 to be even cleaner and more lager-like than US-05, so it could be an even cleaner version of the beer than you might get from US-05 alone.

You keep saying "new" S04.  I'd like some confirmation from the company before I can accept that.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline dmtaylor

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4380
  • Lord Idiot the Lazy
    • YEAST MASTER Perma-Living
Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2021, 02:48:50 pm »
For my last several batches with S-04, they have attenuated to 78-80%.  This seems to be a different and much cleaner strain than it was historically.  Like the manufacturer pulled some kind of switcheroo on us.

So I don't think you'll get much benefit from S-04 actually in a co-pitch.  If anything, I find the new S-04 to be even cleaner and more lager-like than US-05, so it could be an even cleaner version of the beer than you might get from US-05 alone.

You keep saying "new" S04.  I'd like some confirmation from the company before I can accept that.

Wouldn't we all like to know what's going on with this yeast.  All I know is, it performs differently than it did in the past.  And it's not just me; I've heard the same from others.
Dave

The world will become a much more pleasant place to live when each and every one of us realizes that we are all idiots.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 24783
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2021, 03:02:35 pm »
For my last several batches with S-04, they have attenuated to 78-80%.  This seems to be a different and much cleaner strain than it was historically.  Like the manufacturer pulled some kind of switcheroo on us.

So I don't think you'll get much benefit from S-04 actually in a co-pitch.  If anything, I find the new S-04 to be even cleaner and more lager-like than US-05, so it could be an even cleaner version of the beer than you might get from US-05 alone.

You keep saying "new" S04.  I'd like some confirmation from the company before I can accept that.

Wouldn't we all like to know what's going on with this yeast.  All I know is, it performs differently than it did in the past.  And it's not just me; I've heard the same from others.

So why not contact Fermentis and ask them rather than speculation and rumor?
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Iliff Ave

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4176
Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2021, 03:15:52 pm »
S-04 has always performed reliably for me and I haven't noticed any change. I have always found it to be "clean" but I like to ferment it cool. For me it starts to get a bit funky at or above 67F or so.
On Tap/Bottled: IPL, Kolsch, bitter, Czech pils

Fermenting:
Up Next: amber lager, Italian pils

Offline BrewBama

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4879
Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2021, 03:40:01 pm »
+1. I never had an issue with -04 in my English styles. I’ve used it many times over the years and still use it. I have a Porter on tap now with -04. Very reliably consistent beers made with it over the years.  I haven’t noticed any change.

…but I brew beer to drink. I don’t really analyze the beer from year to year. I can’t remember what I had for supper last night much less what the nuances of three batches of beer in the past were.  I keep notes but my descriptions don’t go into that level of detail.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
wisdom is proved right by her deeds

Brewed in the Tennessee Valley. Rocket City — Huntsville AL

Offline dmtaylor

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4380
  • Lord Idiot the Lazy
    • YEAST MASTER Perma-Living
Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2021, 04:06:08 pm »
For my last several batches with S-04, they have attenuated to 78-80%.  This seems to be a different and much cleaner strain than it was historically.  Like the manufacturer pulled some kind of switcheroo on us.

So I don't think you'll get much benefit from S-04 actually in a co-pitch.  If anything, I find the new S-04 to be even cleaner and more lager-like than US-05, so it could be an even cleaner version of the beer than you might get from US-05 alone.

You keep saying "new" S04.  I'd like some confirmation from the company before I can accept that.

Wouldn't we all like to know what's going on with this yeast.  All I know is, it performs differently than it did in the past.  And it's not just me; I've heard the same from others.

So why not contact Fermentis and ask them rather than speculation and rumor?

1) I don't care that much.
2) I don't speak French.
3) I'm lazy.
4) I don't trust yeast manufacturers to tell the truth anyway.
Dave

The world will become a much more pleasant place to live when each and every one of us realizes that we are all idiots.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 24783
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2021, 05:08:36 pm »
For my last several batches with S-04, they have attenuated to 78-80%.  This seems to be a different and much cleaner strain than it was historically.  Like the manufacturer pulled some kind of switcheroo on us.

So I don't think you'll get much benefit from S-04 actually in a co-pitch.  If anything, I find the new S-04 to be even cleaner and more lager-like than US-05, so it could be an even cleaner version of the beer than you might get from US-05 alone.

You keep saying "new" S04.  I'd like some confirmation from the company before I can accept that.

Wouldn't we all like to know what's going on with this yeast.  All I know is, it performs differently than it did in the past.  And it's not just me; I've heard the same from others.

So why not contact Fermentis and ask them rather than speculation and rumor?

1) I don't care that much.
2) I don't speak French.
3) I'm lazy.
4) I don't trust yeast manufacturers to tell the truth anyway.

They have no reason to not tell you the truth.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline BrewBama

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4879
Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2021, 06:56:39 pm »

1) I don't care that much.
2) I don't speak French.
3) I'm lazy.
4) I don't trust yeast manufacturers to tell the truth anyway.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
wisdom is proved right by her deeds

Brewed in the Tennessee Valley. Rocket City — Huntsville AL

Offline Iliff Ave

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4176
Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2021, 08:20:39 pm »
Fermentis would probably tell you it’s a great English strain that makes really nice Belgian beers…
On Tap/Bottled: IPL, Kolsch, bitter, Czech pils

Fermenting:
Up Next: amber lager, Italian pils

Offline Oiscout

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 539
Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2021, 11:56:59 pm »
For my last several batches with S-04, they have attenuated to 78-80%.  This seems to be a different and much cleaner strain than it was historically.  Like the manufacturer pulled some kind of switcheroo on us.

So I don't think you'll get much benefit from S-04 actually in a co-pitch.  If anything, I find the new S-04 to be even cleaner and more lager-like than US-05, so it could be an even cleaner version of the beer than you might get from US-05 alone.

You keep saying "new" S04.  I'd like some confirmation from the company before I can accept that.

Wouldn't we all like to know what's going on with this yeast.  All I know is, it performs differently than it did in the past.  And it's not just me; I've heard the same from others.

So why not contact Fermentis and ask them rather than speculation and rumor?

1) I don't care that much.
2) I don't speak French.
3) I'm lazy.
4) I don't trust yeast manufacturers to tell the truth anyway.
Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk