[enso]

I am all set to brew my first sour beer, except I am undecided on mash temp.  I am hoping to create a beer similar in nature to Jolly Pumpkin's La Roja.  I have been reading much conflicting information on mash regimens. 

One source, Randy Mosher in Radical Brewing, states to mash low @ 145F for 1.5 hours.  This he explains is to create a highly fermentable wort for a dry finish.  This makes sense to me.  Other sources, including a "clone" for la Roja in BYO state something higher like 154F.  One source even suggest going as high as 158F to produce more dextrins and force the bugs to work harder to eat, thus making more of the desired acidity and flavors.  Of course there are also the more traditional step mashes and such.

I realize I will probably get 10 more opinions here!     So, I guess consensus will be my friend.   

I am not using any adjuncts in this brew.  I want to keep it a simple single step mash this time.  I will be using Rosealare yeast directly pitched into the wort and adding some dregs of La roja, Cantillion, and one of my "Orvaled" Saisons.  Grist is 47.8% Vienna, 28.7% pilsner, 9.6% Caramunich II, 9.6% Aromatic, 3.6% Special B, and 0.9% Debittered Carafa special.

Where should I mash it at?

[tschmidlin]

Personally, I mash high on my Flanders to give the bugs more to eat.  It turns out really nice.

[jeffy]

Judges have told me that my own Flanders is too dry, which is what happens if you leave it on the bugs for an extended time.  I'd personally mash high and use some dextrinous malts to attempt to get the residual body.

[enso]

So, is 154f a good place to start then? 

I know the bugs will dry things out, I just don't quite understand them yet as I have very limited personal experience working with them.  I do want it to be fairly dry especially in the finish, yet have slight sweetness in the middle to play off the tartness.  Likewise, I will be adding some medium toast French oak chips to the aging vessel to get some or that oaky tannin character which I suppose will also add some perceived dryness.

I am using 1 lb. of caramunich and about 6 oz. of Special B for sweetness, color, body.  Plus one pound of aromatic for toasty malt flavors.  I am using a high percentage of Vienna for the malty sweetness as well.  I thought I would try that as opposed to more familiar terrain (to me) using Munich.

[tschmidlin]

So, is 154f a good place to start then?  

That's what I do.  The rest of your stuff looks good too, so I think at this point you need to just brew it and RDWHAHB.

[enso]

That's what I do.  The rest of your stuff looks good too, so I think at this point you need to just brew it and RDWHAHB.

Oh it's on.  Strike water is heating right now.  Thanks folks.

Hopefully Fedex brings my Roseleare today...   

[tschmidlin]

Hopefully Fedex brings my Roseleare today...   

If they don't bring it, you can always pitch some 1056 or other clean yeast.  Do it without aerating, underpitch, and ferment cool.  That'll under attenuate the beer so there'll be lots of stuff for the bugs/brett to eat when you throw them in.

[enso]

Roseleare got here just as I finished filling the carboy.  I did only minimal aeration and pitched the dregs then the yeast a bit later.  It is in the fermentation chamber now cooling done to about 64F

Now its time to wait...

[tschmidlin]

Cool, let us know how it turns out.

[enso]

UPDATE:

about a month in and things are good.

Man that Orval stuff is wicked potent.  I pitched some dregs of an "Orval-ed" saison (as well as other dregs...)  I made last spring and it already has that Orval brett character.  Very slight sourness already too, which surprised me.  It is wicked cloudy and chunky at this point but...  it has only been one month.  I am debating how long t leave it on the initial yeast cake.  There actually is very little yeast or trub at this point.   

I held it at 66F for the month.  Had to pull it out of the fermentation cabinet today to make room for another beer.  Gotta make a bigger one...  Or get another fridge/freezer to hook up with my yet to use temp controller.  (come on craigslist, what gives?!)

So it will probably raise to about 77F.  That should be alright at this point though correct?

[CASK1]

As far as how long to wait... Once the bugs are in, leave it until the gravity doesn't change over several weeks and the beer has your desired sourness. Once you rack it, consider it done. I rarely take a Flanders of the bugs before 9 months. When you decide it's time, be ready to put your next sour beer onto the bugs!

[enso]

As far as how long to wait... Once the bugs are in, leave it until the gravity doesn't change over several weeks and the beer has your desired sourness. Once you rack it, consider it done. I rarely take a Flanders of the bugs before 9 months. When you decide it's time, be ready to put your next sour beer onto the bugs!

The bugs were in from the get go.  I pitched the Roseleare blend straight with no other yeasts added.  It has been sitting for a little over a month since pitching.