Author Topic: Vinnie teaches LODO  (Read 2131 times)

Offline denny

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Re: Vinnie teaches LODO
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2021, 12:43:00 pm »
These are all things I do as well. Being one of the early adopters to low o2 brewing, I enjoyed perceived benefits for a couple years, then just literally burnt myself out on brewing worrying about it all the time. It took the fun out of brewing. I still do some of the processes, and sometimes even still deoxygenate the water, but anymore, I don't worry too much about it as my beer doesn't last more than a couple months in the keg before it's gone.
Also, once I found out that sauergut was a key flavor component to "That German Lager Flavor" I decided to stop pursuing it. I wasn't getting those German flavors in my beers that I taste in commercial versions, so I said, screw it and went back to what I was happiest with. I don't have the energy to start making my own sauergut.
Funny but I could have posted that myself although I probably was not one of the 'early adopters of LO'.  I was doing more than I listed with BTB, trifecta mix, spunding, etc. and at some point I felt like my beers were going backwards.  I took a step back and looked closer at what I was doing and I kept the pieces that I thought worked and I simplified.  I also looked back on many batches I made prior to doing ANY low-oxygen steps and I was pretty happy with them.  So I still do the ones I listed, I made some simplifications with regard to pH throughout the process, I cut out trifecta and BTB altogether (my wort and beer only touch stainless and plastic so BTB is not necessary), I started getting some better clarity by using ClearZyme and my beers have been great lately.  Again, my old techniques may have been really bad... splashing and stirring my way through the brewday and these steps maybe just got me to a better place but not really in line with true LO brewers. 
Maybe, probably, but I bet the differences weren't that enormous as to give you pause. Maybe with hoppier styles, but you don't really brew hoppy styles. I guess, in the end, maybe it isn't about brewing the best possible beer, but rather finding the best possible process to continue the joy of homebrew. I don't know, maybe that's BS, just came to mind.

The best beer possible, with the least effort possible, while having the most fun possible.  For me, it's all of those.  None takes precedence over the other.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline beersk

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Re: Vinnie teaches LODO
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2021, 12:49:44 pm »

The best beer possible, with the least effort possible, while having the most fun possible.  For me, it's all of those.  None takes precedence over the other.
Ah, yep, that's it. Lately social brewing has been a lot more fun for me. I've historically been more of a solo brewer. Some of those episodes of Brewing TV where they're all together brewing are my favorite episodes. They just have so much fun BSing and brewing, and drinking, etc. I want to do that more.
Jesse

Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Vinnie teaches LODO
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2021, 12:52:10 pm »
It's a weird balance because if I say "it's supposed to be fun, man!"... that doesn't necessarily fly if you don't care for your beer.  You don't want to spend 4-5 hours making beer that you don't like.  So it's a balance of having fun, making [what you consider to be] great beer and not sweating the details as if it's a job.  I know that I continue to move in the right direction because for years I "liked" my beers but realized that many commercial craft beer was better.  So I kept fine-tuning and improving.  At this point, I would much rather drink my own beer over almost every other beer... with some exceptions, of course.  I can't beat true German beer and there are some fantastic craft beers around that I try to duplicate.  But I thank my lucky stars for where I am right now because I truly love to make beer, drink it myself and also serve it to others.  It only took 22 years to get to that point.  :D
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Offline denny

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Re: Vinnie teaches LODO
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2021, 01:03:26 pm »
It's a weird balance because if I say "it's supposed to be fun, man!"... that doesn't necessarily fly if you don't care for your beer. You don't want to spend 4-5 hours making beer that you don't like.  So it's a balance of having fun, making [what you consider to be] great beer and not sweating the details as if it's a job.  I know that I continue to move in the right direction because for years I "liked" my beers but realized that many commercial craft beer was better.  So I kept fine-tuning and improving.  At this point, I would much rather drink my own beer over almost every other beer... with some exceptions, of course.  I can't beat true German beer and there are some fantastic craft beers around that I try to duplicate.  But I thank my lucky stars for where I am right now because I truly love to make beer, drink it myself and also serve it to others.  It only took 22 years to get to that point.  :D

Make the best beer possible, remember?  For me, it's a balance of the 3.  I'm not gonna skip something if it means the beer sucks.  But we each get to decide what's important and what's not.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline lupulus

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Re: Vinnie teaches LODO
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2021, 01:04:11 pm »


These are all things I do as well. Being one of the early adopters to low o2 brewing, I enjoyed perceived benefits for a couple years, then just literally burnt myself out on brewing worrying about it all the time. It took the fun out of brewing. I still do some of the processes, and sometimes even still deoxygenate the water, but anymore, I don't worry too much about it as my beer doesn't last more than a couple months in the keg before it's gone.
Also, once I found out that sauergut was a key flavor component to "That German Lager Flavor" I decided to stop pursuing it. I wasn't getting those German flavors in my beers that I taste in commercial versions, so I said, screw it and went back to what I was happiest with. I don't have the energy to start making my own sauergut.
Funny but I could have posted that myself although I probably was not one of the 'early adopters of LO'.  I was doing more than I listed with BTB, trifecta mix, spunding, etc. and at some point I felt like my beers were going backwards.  I took a step back and looked closer at what I was doing and I kept the pieces that I thought worked and I simplified.  I also looked back on many batches I made prior to doing ANY low-oxygen steps and I was pretty happy with them.  So I still do the ones I listed, I made some simplifications with regard to pH throughout the process, I cut out trifecta and BTB altogether (my wort and beer only touch stainless and plastic so BTB is not necessary), I started getting some better clarity by using ClearZyme and my beers have been great lately.  Again, my old techniques may have been really bad... splashing and stirring my way through the brewday and these steps maybe just got me to a better place but not really in line with true LO brewers. 
Maybe, probably, but I bet the differences weren't that enormous as to give you pause. Maybe with hoppier styles, but you don't really brew hoppy styles. I guess, in the end, maybe it isn't about brewing the best possible beer, but rather finding the best possible process to continue the joy of homebrew. I don't know, maybe that's BS, just came to mind.

The best beer possible, with the least effort possible, while having the most fun possible.  For me, it's all of those.  None takes precedence over the other.

Everybody that does this as a hobby brews this way.
No exceptions.
From LODO to triple decoctions to historical beers to Mr Beer kits.

Sent from my SM-G981U1 using Tapatalk

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”  Neil deGrasse Tyson

Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Vinnie teaches LODO
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2021, 01:09:26 pm »
Make the best beer possible, remember?  For me, it's a balance of the 3.  I'm not gonna skip something if it means the beer sucks.  But we each get to decide what's important and what's not.
Right.  Occasionally I make a beer where something didn't go as envisioned... an ester, a smidge of diacetyl, maybe hops that were past their prime.  I'm the first to notice and I will generally not recommend that beer to others.  I am [and should be] the most critical person of the beer I brew.  I have known a number of brewers who thought their clearly subpar beer was FANTASTIC!  I hope that doesn't sound condescending but the brewer has to know whether the beer is right or not.  Consistently bad beer needs to be addressed, for sure.  Maybe a bit of searching, tweaking, troubleshooting.  That's not always fun but it's necessary.  Then once that's figured out... back to the fun!  :D
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline beersk

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Re: Vinnie teaches LODO
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2021, 01:21:06 pm »
Make the best beer possible, remember?  For me, it's a balance of the 3.  I'm not gonna skip something if it means the beer sucks.  But we each get to decide what's important and what's not.
Right.  Occasionally I make a beer where something didn't go as envisioned... an ester, a smidge of diacetyl, maybe hops that were past their prime.  I'm the first to notice and I will generally not recommend that beer to others.  I am [and should be] the most critical person of the beer I brew.  I have known a number of brewers who thought their clearly subpar beer was FANTASTIC!  I hope that doesn't sound condescending but the brewer has to know whether the beer is right or not.  Consistently bad beer needs to be addressed, for sure.  Maybe a bit of searching, tweaking, troubleshooting.  That's not always fun but it's necessary.  Then once that's figured out... back to the fun!  :D
Well, that's the deal, if they think it's great, then they'll improve at their own rate. We all thought our beer was great years ago, then gradually we got better. Now I bet if we drank beers we thought were so great years ago, we'd think, hmm these need some tweaking. Or maybe not! But, like Denny says, best beer possible while having the most fun. Some people love the technical science side of things, whilst others are more artists. I'm a little bit of both, although I tried to be more science-y for a good couple of years. I've gradually gone back towards the center of the venn diagram of art and science.
Jesse

Offline dbeechum

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Re: Vinnie teaches LODO
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2021, 01:30:53 pm »
Everybody that does this as a hobby brews this way.
No exceptions.
From LODO to triple decoctions to historical beers to Mr Beer kits.

I don't know - I've seen some people making themselves absolutely miserable with what they're trying to do in the hobby.

Having said that - as I've always said around people's processes, including ones that don't fit my needs - if it floats your boat, you do you. I don't suspect many people light prayer incense prior to brewing like I do.
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Offline denny

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Re: Vinnie teaches LODO
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2021, 01:56:12 pm »


These are all things I do as well. Being one of the early adopters to low o2 brewing, I enjoyed perceived benefits for a couple years, then just literally burnt myself out on brewing worrying about it all the time. It took the fun out of brewing. I still do some of the processes, and sometimes even still deoxygenate the water, but anymore, I don't worry too much about it as my beer doesn't last more than a couple months in the keg before it's gone.
Also, once I found out that sauergut was a key flavor component to "That German Lager Flavor" I decided to stop pursuing it. I wasn't getting those German flavors in my beers that I taste in commercial versions, so I said, screw it and went back to what I was happiest with. I don't have the energy to start making my own sauergut.
Funny but I could have posted that myself although I probably was not one of the 'early adopters of LO'.  I was doing more than I listed with BTB, trifecta mix, spunding, etc. and at some point I felt like my beers were going backwards.  I took a step back and looked closer at what I was doing and I kept the pieces that I thought worked and I simplified.  I also looked back on many batches I made prior to doing ANY low-oxygen steps and I was pretty happy with them.  So I still do the ones I listed, I made some simplifications with regard to pH throughout the process, I cut out trifecta and BTB altogether (my wort and beer only touch stainless and plastic so BTB is not necessary), I started getting some better clarity by using ClearZyme and my beers have been great lately.  Again, my old techniques may have been really bad... splashing and stirring my way through the brewday and these steps maybe just got me to a better place but not really in line with true LO brewers. 
Maybe, probably, but I bet the differences weren't that enormous as to give you pause. Maybe with hoppier styles, but you don't really brew hoppy styles. I guess, in the end, maybe it isn't about brewing the best possible beer, but rather finding the best possible process to continue the joy of homebrew. I don't know, maybe that's BS, just came to mind.

The best beer possible, with the least effort possible, while having the most fun possible.  For me, it's all of those.  None takes precedence over the other.

Everybody that does this as a hobby brews this way.
No exceptions.
From LODO to triple decoctions to historical beers to Mr Beer kits.

Sent from my SM-G981U1 using Tapatalk

What way?
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline majorvices

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Re: Vinnie teaches LODO
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2021, 02:02:23 pm »
well,  not to derail the topic but 45 minutes in so far ... can't say it's been incredibly enlightening but it's always nice to hear Vinnie talk. He's such a great dude (yes, I have met him). I'm jealous of his wet mill and malt bottom angered into the tun is pretty awesome.

Offline tommymorris

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Vinnie teaches LODO
« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2021, 02:05:11 pm »
Everybody that does this as a hobby brews this way.
No exceptions.
From LODO to triple decoctions to historical beers to Mr Beer kits.
I don't suspect many people light prayer incense prior to brewing like I do.
Does it help?

Offline dbeechum

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Re: Vinnie teaches LODO
« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2021, 02:16:49 pm »
I don't suspect many people light prayer incense prior to brewing like I do.
Does it help?

Ha - oddly, yes.

It sets my mind towards brewing and signals that it's begun.
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Offline jeffy

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Re: Vinnie teaches LODO
« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2021, 02:20:17 pm »
well,  not to derail the topic but 45 minutes in so far ... can't say it's been incredibly enlightening but it's always nice to hear Vinnie talk. He's such a great dude (yes, I have met him). I'm jealous of his wet mill and malt bottom angered into the tun is pretty awesome.
Spell check is funny sometimes
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Offline lupulus

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Re: Vinnie teaches LODO
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2021, 04:51:38 pm »




These are all things I do as well. Being one of the early adopters to low o2 brewing, I enjoyed perceived benefits for a couple years, then just literally burnt myself out on brewing worrying about it all the time. It took the fun out of brewing. I still do some of the processes, and sometimes even still deoxygenate the water, but anymore, I don't worry too much about it as my beer doesn't last more than a couple months in the keg before it's gone.
Also, once I found out that sauergut was a key flavor component to "That German Lager Flavor" I decided to stop pursuing it. I wasn't getting those German flavors in my beers that I taste in commercial versions, so I said, screw it and went back to what I was happiest with. I don't have the energy to start making my own sauergut.
Funny but I could have posted that myself although I probably was not one of the 'early adopters of LO'.  I was doing more than I listed with BTB, trifecta mix, spunding, etc. and at some point I felt like my beers were going backwards.  I took a step back and looked closer at what I was doing and I kept the pieces that I thought worked and I simplified.  I also looked back on many batches I made prior to doing ANY low-oxygen steps and I was pretty happy with them.  So I still do the ones I listed, I made some simplifications with regard to pH throughout the process, I cut out trifecta and BTB altogether (my wort and beer only touch stainless and plastic so BTB is not necessary), I started getting some better clarity by using ClearZyme and my beers have been great lately.  Again, my old techniques may have been really bad... splashing and stirring my way through the brewday and these steps maybe just got me to a better place but not really in line with true LO brewers. 
Maybe, probably, but I bet the differences weren't that enormous as to give you pause. Maybe with hoppier styles, but you don't really brew hoppy styles. I guess, in the end, maybe it isn't about brewing the best possible beer, but rather finding the best possible process to continue the joy of homebrew. I don't know, maybe that's BS, just came to mind.

The best beer possible, with the least effort possible, while having the most fun possible.  For me, it's all of those.  None takes precedence over the other.

Everybody that does this as a hobby brews this way.
No exceptions.
From LODO to triple decoctions to historical beers to Mr Beer kits.

Sent from my SM-G981U1 using Tapatalk

What way?

The best beer possible. To them.
With the least effort that would allow the best beer possible. To them.
While having the most fun. Their interpretation of fun.

Sent from my SM-G981U1 using Tapatalk

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”  Neil deGrasse Tyson

Offline majorvices

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Re: Vinnie teaches LODO
« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2021, 05:29:34 pm »
well,  not to derail the topic but 45 minutes in so far ... can't say it's been incredibly enlightening but it's always nice to hear Vinnie talk. He's such a great dude (yes, I have met him). I'm jealous of his wet mill and malt bottom angered into the tun is pretty awesome.
Spell check is funny sometimes

That damn autocorrect. lol