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Author Topic: Vinnie teaches LODO  (Read 3407 times)

Offline BrewBama

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Offline lupulus

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Re: Vinnie teaches LODO
« Reply #31 on: October 28, 2021, 08:27:12 pm »


Can you answer this:

Potential O2 pickup during kegging
 https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?share_fid=40079&share_tid=37391&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ehomebrewersassociation%2Eorg%2Fforum%2Findex%2Ephp%3Ftopic%3D37391&share_type=t&link_source=app



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The answer is not simple. It's almost impossible to measure the oxidation effect because oxidation occurs mostly through redox reactions driven by reactive oxygen species (ROS), not just oxygen.
Nonetheless, a good proxy for what may be occurring can be guessed by the TPO measurement methodology. See MBAA podcast: TPO.
Also, a Brauwelt 2018 article, TPO, getting the whole picture, illustrates the complexities of this measurement.

Hope this helps.
Cheers!




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« Last Edit: October 29, 2021, 06:58:53 am by lupulus »
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Offline lupulus

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Re: Vinnie teaches LODO
« Reply #32 on: October 28, 2021, 08:51:11 pm »
Everybody that does this as a hobby brews this way.
No exceptions.
From LODO to triple decoctions to historical beers to Mr Beer kits.

I don't know - I've seen some people making themselves absolutely miserable with what they're trying to do in the hobby.

Having said that - as I've always said around people's processes, including ones that don't fit my needs - if it floats your boat, you do you. I don't suspect many people light prayer incense prior to brewing like I do.
You won't last long being miserable.
Masochism does exist but it's a rare pathology.
I know many, many home brewers at many levels. Can't name one miserable. (Edit: when homebrewing or discussing brewing.)


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« Last Edit: October 29, 2021, 07:35:41 am by lupulus »
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Offline BrewBama

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Re: Vinnie teaches LODO
« Reply #33 on: October 29, 2021, 09:03:05 am »


Can you answer this:

Potential O2 pickup during kegging
 https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?share_fid=40079&share_tid=37391&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ehomebrewersassociation%2Eorg%2Fforum%2Findex%2Ephp%3Ftopic%3D37391&share_type=t&link_source=app



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
The answer is not simple. It's almost impossible to measure the oxidation effect because oxidation occurs mostly through redox reactions driven by reactive oxygen species (ROS), not just oxygen.
Nonetheless, a good proxy for what may be occurring can be guessed by the TPO measurement methodology. See MBAA podcast: TPO.
Also, a Brauwelt 2018 article, TPO, getting the whole picture, illustrates the complexities of this measurement.

Hope this helps.
Cheers!




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Thank you. I’ll ck out those resources.



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Offline narcout

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Re: Vinnie teaches LODO
« Reply #34 on: November 04, 2021, 01:07:23 pm »
So I still do the ones I listed, I made some simplifications with regard to pH throughout the process, I cut out trifecta and BTB altogether (my wort and beer only touch stainless and plastic so BTB is not necessary), I started getting some better clarity by using ClearZyme and my beers have been great lately. 

A lot of the iron content in wort (a fair bit of which can be chelated with tannic acid) actually comes from the malt itself.
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Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Vinnie teaches LODO
« Reply #35 on: November 04, 2021, 01:20:02 pm »
A lot of the iron content in wort (a fair bit of which can be chelated with tannic acid) actually comes from the malt itself.
So BTB would still be necessary?  The beers I have made without it (and trifecta mix) have been pretty stellar but I would continue to use it if there seemed to be a need.  I should also mention that the trifecta dosage was discussed a bit and it seemed like many people were experiencing "fart beer" and lowering the dosage.  I think it started at 100ppm, then 50, then 25.  I believe I was at 12.5ppm and I would still experience some of that character in the beer.  In the end, all beer is fart beer but let me tell you... nobody wants farty beer.  :D
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Offline denny

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Re: Vinnie teaches LODO
« Reply #36 on: November 04, 2021, 01:46:45 pm »
A lot of the iron content in wort (a fair bit of which can be chelated with tannic acid) actually comes from the malt itself.
So BTB would still be necessary?  The beers I have made without it (and trifecta mix) have been pretty stellar but I would continue to use it if there seemed to be a need.  I should also mention that the trifecta dosage was discussed a bit and it seemed like many people were experiencing "fart beer" and lowering the dosage.  I think it started at 100ppm, then 50, then 25.  I believe I was at 12.5ppm and I would still experience some of that character in the beer.  In the end, all beer is fart beer but let me tell you... nobody wants farty beer.  :D

If the beer is "pretty stellar", what would be the need?
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Offline lupulus

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Re: Vinnie teaches LODO
« Reply #37 on: November 04, 2021, 04:48:06 pm »


A lot of the iron content in wort (a fair bit of which can be chelated with tannic acid) actually comes from the malt itself.
So BTB would still be necessary?  The beers I have made without it (and trifecta mix) have been pretty stellar but I would continue to use it if there seemed to be a need.  I should also mention that the trifecta dosage was discussed a bit and it seemed like many people were experiencing "fart beer" and lowering the dosage.  I think it started at 100ppm, then 50, then 25.  I believe I was at 12.5ppm and I would still experience some of that character in the beer.  In the end, all beer is fart beer but let me tell you... nobody wants farty beer.  :D

12.5ppm of Trifecta is about 5.5ppm of sulfites.
For comparison, a Campden in 30L would be 14.6ppm sulfites.

With these doses, farty beer was most likely due to yeast health.

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Offline beersk

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Re: Vinnie teaches LODO
« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2021, 09:54:01 am »
A lot of the iron content in wort (a fair bit of which can be chelated with tannic acid) actually comes from the malt itself.
So BTB would still be necessary?  The beers I have made without it (and trifecta mix) have been pretty stellar but I would continue to use it if there seemed to be a need.  I should also mention that the trifecta dosage was discussed a bit and it seemed like many people were experiencing "fart beer" and lowering the dosage.  I think it started at 100ppm, then 50, then 25.  I believe I was at 12.5ppm and I would still experience some of that character in the beer.  In the end, all beer is fart beer but let me tell you... nobody wants farty beer.  :D

If the beer is "pretty stellar", what would be the need?
Exactly. Keep doing what you're doing, Ken.
Jesse

Offline denny

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Re: Vinnie teaches LODO
« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2021, 10:04:16 am »


A lot of the iron content in wort (a fair bit of which can be chelated with tannic acid) actually comes from the malt itself.
So BTB would still be necessary?  The beers I have made without it (and trifecta mix) have been pretty stellar but I would continue to use it if there seemed to be a need.  I should also mention that the trifecta dosage was discussed a bit and it seemed like many people were experiencing "fart beer" and lowering the dosage.  I think it started at 100ppm, then 50, then 25.  I believe I was at 12.5ppm and I would still experience some of that character in the beer.  In the end, all beer is fart beer but let me tell you... nobody wants farty beer.  :D

12.5ppm of Trifecta is about 5.5ppm of sulfites.
For comparison, a Campden in 30L would be 14.6ppm sulfites.

With these doses, farty beer was most likely due to yeast health.

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So what the explanation when he says he gets the aroma when he uses it and doesn't get it when he doesn't use it?
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Offline lupulus

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Re: Vinnie teaches LODO
« Reply #40 on: November 05, 2021, 10:18:12 am »
You need to ask him.
Fart smell is hydrogen sulfide not SO2.

Sulfide is an indicator of yeast stress.

I have never before seen an association between Campden tablet use and hydrogen sulfide.

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Offline denny

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Re: Vinnie teaches LODO
« Reply #41 on: November 05, 2021, 10:42:49 am »
You need to ask him.
Fart smell is hydrogen sulfide not SO2.

Sulfide is an indicator of yeast stress.

I have never before seen an association between Campden tablet use and hydrogen sulfide.

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I'm asking you since you seemed to have an answer.  Don't sweat it...its Ok.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline lupulus

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Re: Vinnie teaches LODO
« Reply #42 on: November 05, 2021, 12:22:25 pm »
You need to ask him.
Fart smell is hydrogen sulfide not SO2.

Sulfide is an indicator of yeast stress.

I have never before seen an association between Campden tablet use and hydrogen sulfide.

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I'm asking you since you seemed to have an answer.  Don't sweat it...its Ok.
200+ brews using sulfites. Had sulfide once when using wlp380.
My fault most likely.

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Offline denny

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Re: Vinnie teaches LODO
« Reply #43 on: November 05, 2021, 12:28:09 pm »
You need to ask him.
Fart smell is hydrogen sulfide not SO2.

Sulfide is an indicator of yeast stress.

I have never before seen an association between Campden tablet use and hydrogen sulfide.

Sent from my SM-G981U1 using Tapatalk

I'm asking you since you seemed to have an answer.  Don't sweat it...its Ok.
200+ brews using sulfites. Had sulfide once when using wlp380.
My fault most likely.

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Thanks for the reply.  Still doesn't answer my question, but that's fine.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline narcout

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Re: Vinnie teaches LODO
« Reply #44 on: November 05, 2021, 04:52:41 pm »
A lot of the iron content in wort (a fair bit of which can be chelated with tannic acid) actually comes from the malt itself.
So BTB would still be necessary?

I didn't mean to imply that.  I just wanted to point out that wort contains iron, copper, etc. regardless of what material one's mash tun or chiller are made from.  And that tannic acid is an effective chelator of iron (though apparently not of copper).
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