Author Topic: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast  (Read 8332 times)

Offline denny

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Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2021, 08:31:46 am »
I use both.  I often save and re-pitch slurries of either and tend to plan my recipe around the slurries I've got.

I assume that the reason there are a lot more strains available as liquid is the manufacturing infrastructure required to produce dry yeast?  Or are some strains just not suited for being produced in dry form?

I'm told it's because there are strains that won't survive the drying process.
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Offline Steve Ruch

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Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2021, 08:51:26 am »
I use dry as often as I can, as long as it will give the results I'm looking for.  Mainly BRY-97 and Diamond lager.
The only liquid yeast that I've used in years was 1450 in a Wry Smile.
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Offline erockrph

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Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2021, 09:48:48 am »
I'm using about 80% dry yeast at the moment. I have dry yeast strains that fill most of the slots in my toolkit, but there are a few times year where I what a specific flavor from a specific yeast. This is usually for English ales where each yeast strain has its own flavor profile, and I am generally in the mood for something specific. Windsor or Windsor/Notty works well enough if I'm not having a specific craving, but if I want the flavor profile of 1469, 1968, WLP013, etc., then there is no dry option. I've also enjoyed some of the newer strains that Omega has been putting out, so those are the other liquid options I use.

I don't have a LHBS that sells liquid yeast, and most of my brew days are done on short notice. Even if I preferred liquid yeast (which isn't necessarily the case for many of the beers I brew), the convenience of dry yeast makes it my go-to. At any given time I have at least 1 pack of BRY-97, US-05, New England IPA, S-189, 34/70 and Windsor, plus D47 and 71B for cider/mead/other. I also have packets of Diamond, Verdant IPA, and dry Lutra that I am looking forward to try soon. Times are good for dry yeast users right now.
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Offline fredthecat

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Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2021, 10:08:54 am »

I'm told it's because there are strains that won't survive the drying process.

definitely. there are even differences in survivability for liquid yeasts it seems, with people reporting that the generic expiration/production date + x months doesn't reliably ensure survivability for some strains




I used Munich Classic once in a Dunkelweizen and it was pretty rough. I assumed I fouled up the fermentation in some way, but after reading your comment, now I’m not so sure.  :D
Doesn’t matter I suppose because I’m unlikely to ever use it again.

yeah, i agree though. a lot of people recommend munich classic, and it sort of checks the boxes for what you'd expect in a weizen yeast, but same, unexpectedly harsh.



tbh sacch, i think there already is a thread where people throw out their fave dry yeast strains. i agree with the types repeated by many, but would add k-97.

i fermented it cool and it was a very clean yeast that had an incredibly persistent haze and made the hops pop pretty well. people label it as "german ale/kolsch/alt" whatever, but i see it as a NEIPA potential yeast or IPA. i'd love to hear recent and more feedback from people who used it well.


ive been noticing dry yeast prices slowly rising, especially the lager ones. right now at my online store W34/70 is about $8.50, this sort of negates one of the advantages of dry yeast.

https://www.ontariobeerkegs.com/saflager-s-189-dry-lager-yeast.html

https://www.ontariobeerkegs.com/lallemand-kolsch-koln.html - $7



« Last Edit: November 01, 2021, 10:14:41 am by fredthecat »

Offline Visor

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Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2021, 11:58:36 am »
  I use dry or harvest dry almost exclusively, I don't think I've brewed anything with liquid in at least 2 years. If I could get liquid yeast while it was still alive and viable there are a couple I certainly use, but it's always dead by the time it gets here - no matter how many ice packs I pay for. US-05 and 34/70 make most of my beer but I also like BE-256 for some big beers. I did a few split ferments with 05/Bry 97 & really couldn't tell a difference so I saw no reason to switch. I've also split 05 with S-04, M-44, Liberty Bell and a whole bunch of other non similar yeasts like Lallbrew Kolsch, M-15, Notty & Lallbrew London ESB, and always like the 05 beers better. Same thing with 34/70, in the splits I've done with S-23, S-189 and M-76, the 34/70 beers were more to my liking. I do have a package of Diamond Lager but haven't gotten around to trying it yet.
   I'd love to have a viable pack of Wy-1728 again but have given up hope of that unless and until I happen to be in a town that's big enough to have a good LBHS.
   I can't stand sour beers so T-58, BE-135, Belle Saison and to a lesser extent K-97 did not make beers I wanted to drink. I was told recently by a pro brewer that K-97 is supposed to be a Kolsch yeast, I wonder if Dave or any of the yeast gurus would chime in on that.
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Offline Wilbur

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Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2021, 12:33:41 pm »
Meads-Dry Yeast
Beer-75/25 Liquid/dry
10-15 batches a year (Some split)

I've not been impressed with the dry lager yeasts (S-23, 34/70) that I've tried, OYL-114 Bayern Lager just seems to hit all the right notes for me.
I've been having a lot of fun doing some split batches with different yeasts, and dry yeasts just don't have the variety. I try and keep some on hand for emergencies or if I'm just trying to hit the easy button.

I'm trying BRY-97, and I'll probably grab packet of dried Lutra as a backup. Buying a 4 pack of Propper starter and a few liquid yeasts seems to let me have more fun. Ritebrew in Wisconsin offers Speedee Delivery, so I can get 1-2 day shipping for less than $10 for very fresh yeast. The price gap between dry and liquid seems to be shrinking over the last few years.

https://c.tenor.com/-icsGiNSb3MAAAAC/speedy-delivery.gif



Offline Bob357

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Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2021, 02:12:53 pm »
I've been getting most of my dry ale yeasts for $3.99/packet from William's brewing and YVH.
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Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2021, 03:32:22 pm »
I use dry as often as I can, as long as it will give the results I'm looking for.  Mainly BRY-97 and Diamond lager.

I second the vote for Diamond Lager. Full disclosure...it is only dry on the initial pitch out of the package.
We then harvest it for succeeding brews. I think we have one now that is the 9th or 10th generation.
So in the end we are using a harvested slurry, that originated from a dry package.
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2021, 03:47:18 pm »
I have actually gone the other way lately, using more liquid yeast than previously (say 10% of the time), partly because the availability of the Omega Yeast here in the Chicago area.  It comes super fresh to my LHBS and is now packaged in pitchable pouches, where no starter is necessary, except for the unusual large beer (I make mostly lower ABV beers with under 1.050 OG, often under 1.040 OG).  I still use mostly dry yeast, with Diamond coming in this year about a dead heat with S-189 as my most used yeast (mostly lagers, but occasionally a Brit Ordinary Bitter with an Omega Brit Strain).

I tried the dry ESB when it came out a couple years back, but I wasn't enamored with it.  I should try it again to see if my palate has shifted on the Brit OB's...
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Offline Saccharomyces

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Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2021, 04:28:25 pm »
I have actually gone the other way lately, using more liquid yeast than previously (say 10% of the time), partly because the availability of the Omega Yeast here in the Chicago area.  It comes super fresh to my LHBS and is now packaged in pitchable pouches, where no starter is necessary, except for the unusual large beer (I make mostly lower ABV beers with under 1.050 OG, often under 1.040 OG).  I still use mostly dry yeast, with Diamond coming in this year about a dead heat with S-189 as my most used yeast (mostly lagers, but occasionally a Brit Ordinary Bitter with an Omega Brit Strain).

I tried the dry ESB when it came out a couple years back, but I wasn't enamored with it.  I should try it again to see if my palate has shifted on the Brit OB's...

That is my problem with dry yeast.  There are no truly exceptional British cultures available.  For a while, it looked like Verdant was promising, but it appears that interest in the culture is waning.  I am more a of British-style ale brewer than an American-style ale brewer. Windsor and London are maltotriose crippled.

Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2021, 04:34:52 pm »
Count us as being lucky. Brewing mostly Euro Style Lagers, the Diamond yeast is a hands down winner!

The ales we brew are few and far between. But they are BIG beers, with an ABV of 10.8%. And we used S04.

I used to be a liquid yeast snob, but not any more.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2021, 04:36:59 pm by TXFlyGuy »
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Online tommymorris

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Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2021, 05:14:12 pm »
I have actually gone the other way lately, using more liquid yeast than previously (say 10% of the time), partly because the availability of the Omega Yeast here in the Chicago area.  It comes super fresh to my LHBS and is now packaged in pitchable pouches, where no starter is necessary, except for the unusual large beer (I make mostly lower ABV beers with under 1.050 OG, often under 1.040 OG).  I still use mostly dry yeast, with Diamond coming in this year about a dead heat with S-189 as my most used yeast (mostly lagers, but occasionally a Brit Ordinary Bitter with an Omega Brit Strain).

I tried the dry ESB when it came out a couple years back, but I wasn't enamored with it.  I should try it again to see if my palate has shifted on the Brit OB's...

That is my problem with dry yeast.  There are no truly exceptional British cultures available.  For a while, it looked like Verdant was promising, but it appears that interest in the culture is waning.  I am more a of British-style ale brewer than an American-style ale brewer. Windsor and London are maltotriose crippled.
What about copitching Windsor and Nottingham? I just tried that. I am still waiting on the results…

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2021, 07:54:13 pm »
Dry yeast has so many advantages over liquid yeast that it makes me wish I could use it for every beer style and every recipe under the sun.  And so over time, I have been trying almost every yeast available from the big two: Lallemand and Fermentis.

By & large, dry yeasts have come a long long way over just the past 5-10 years.  If you haven’t tried a dry yeast in a while, it’s time to give it another go.

For example, there are some who hate S-04.  And I used to dislike it as well, finding it to be sulfury and a bit finicky.  However recently I have given it a chance a couple more times, and now find it to be extremely clean and lager-like, and an excellent competitor against US-05, Nottingham, and even – gasp – W-34/70!  Try it again, you might like it.  It’s very clean and NOT fruity.  Should be suitable for any style really where you do not want the yeast to stand out.  Indeed, I think I am all done with US-05 now (after using it a dozen times or more), and from here on out will begin using S-04 for any recipe where US-05 is specified.

Unfortunately, on occasion, some dry yeasts come with a specific disadvantage: tartness.  Why this is exactly, personally I am not certain, except that I know it to be true.  People have at some point reported tartness with just about every dry yeast strain, but perhaps none moreso than K-97, which is often (usually?) a sour yeasty mess for many months.  As such I cannot recommend its use.  It is in fact derived from real-life Kolsch yeast, but… something apparently goes wrong in the drying process to make it unworthy.  It’s too bad.  I wish it were good, but it isn’t, in MY opinion.

And I experience a similar phenomenon with WB-06, which by the way is not a German yeast at all but a Belgian with mild phenolics.  But again, tart and hazy and generally just not as great as its liquid counterparts.

For years I have been promoting S-189 as being superior to W-34/70, and I maintain this stance.  That being said… I finally in my last batch split it between S-189 and the Lallemand Diamond strain… and while I find the results to be very very similar, I can’t help but recognize that the Diamond strain adds a German lager authenticity that simply is not present with S-189.  The S-189 is super clean to the point of blandness, as it just doesn’t add any unusual character at all, even when fermented at room temperature, whereas Diamond yeast gives a lager that actually tastes “German”.  There are some who understand this distinction, and to those people, I recommend that you give Diamond a try if you haven’t yet.

Unfortunately I have not brewed many Belgian styles in recent years, and I know I want to try much more.  So my own input on those is a little more up in the air.  Two yeasts I have tried included T-58 and BE-256, and I have to say… I was rather NOT impressed with either one.  So I’ll be moving on to BE-134 in near future.  I do love Belle Saison, it’s clean but super dry and still characterful enough to win medals for myself and friends, so take care not to dismiss it too easily.

If they sold Mangrove Jack anywhere, I’d be buying and trying those as well, knowing that they are really just repackaged from other manufacturers, but with perhaps a somewhat reduced price.  But I haven’t seen these around much, at least not in my area.  I would not for one second hesitate to buy some though if I could find it and the price was right.

The following yeasts are all very closely related and very similar, and these hold a place in my toolbox when I want a lower alcohol beer and/or for it to finish fermenting in 40 hours flat guaranteed: S-33, Muntons, Windsor, and Lallemand London (“ESB”).  People might complain that the attenuation on these is poor and FG is too high; however, this is desirable in some recipes.  It’s a tool.  I really have enjoyed the beers I’ve made with London in particular.

If I had to declare a winner, I think Lallemand has got Fermentis beat by a hair.  But there are many great Fermentis strains as well, many of which are mentioned above for a reason.  I have not and will not commit loyalty to any one brand.  I still use both White Labs and Wyeast frequently as well.  I’ve not tried Omega or Imperial yet, but am not against the idea and eventually will.  A small part of the reason I study all the yeast strains available to us is so that I can more easily make substitutions between manufacturers, because, how many times have you really NEEDED to get one yeast strain in particular, only to find that it’s not available right now, or past its expiration, etc.  So why not try the best possible substitute if there is another strain comes “close enough for most intents & purposes”?  And the comparative pricing comes into play often as well, for those of us who pinch pennies (just a habit for me).

I love to split every batch and almost always try two different yeasts for comparisons.  I’ve learned a lot doing this, and suggest anyone else interested should try the same.

Cheers and happy yeasting (whatever that means).  :)
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Offline Saccharomyces

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Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2021, 08:02:52 pm »
What about copitching Windsor and Nottingham? I just tried that. I am still waiting on the results…

While better than nothing, the combo still does not scream British.  When the dry yeast propagators produce a culture that can compete with Wyeast 1968, Wyeast 1469, Wyeast 1275, or BrewTek CL-160, I will give up using liquid and cultured yeast. Lallemand Verdant IPA comes close, but my one and only experience with the culture left me wanting. Verdant IPA is a culture that makes Wyeast 1007 look like it produces a small head. It requires a fermentation vessel with a lot of head space.

Offline Saccharomyces

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Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2021, 08:14:43 pm »
I agree with everyone with respect to Diamond Lager. Lallemand hit it out of the park with this culture. It is easily the best dry culture currently being propagated. My initial pitch of Diamond Lager made a good festbier, but my first repitch the culture produced a amazing Vienna. The culture is still waiting to be repitched a second time. I would never recommend Fermentis W-34/70 over Diamond Lager. I am not a fan of the tartness and finish W-34/70 produces.