Author Topic: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast  (Read 5417 times)

Offline Saccharomyces

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Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #150 on: November 20, 2021, 11:53:44 am »
Try WY1007 or 1728. I typically ferment both of those at 52f and get strong fermentation.

I have used both of those cultures and the blow-off from them does not sound like someone is kicking the side of the blow-off container at 52F. That is what S-23 sounded like to me.

Offline denny

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Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #151 on: November 20, 2021, 12:00:09 pm »
Try WY1007 or 1728. I typically ferment both of those at 52f and get strong fermentation.

I have used both of those cultures and the blow-off from them does not sound like someone is kicking the side of the blow-off container at 52F. That is what S-23 sounded like to me.

I just had a 5.5 gal. batch with 1007 blow out of an 8 gal. fermenter.
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Offline Saccharomyces

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Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #152 on: November 20, 2021, 12:43:14 pm »
I just had a 5.5 gal. batch with 1007 blow out of an 8 gal. fermenter.

That is only because 1007 produces a massive head.  That is different than a culture that does not produce a large head that is blowing gas off like crazy.  Wyeast 1007 ferments strongly in the high 50s, but not in the low 50s.  While less affected by lower temperatures than most S. cerevisiae cultures, it lacks the cryotolerance of a true lager yeast strain because it lacks the S. eubayanus genetic admixture that lager strains enjoy.  One is going to get a large head with 1007 because it is a true top-cropping yeast strain.

Offline denny

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Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #153 on: November 20, 2021, 12:47:19 pm »
I just had a 5.5 gal. batch with 1007 blow out of an 8 gal. fermenter.

That is only because 1007 produces a massive head.  That is different than a culture that does not produce a large head that is blowing gas off like crazy.  Wyeast 1007 ferments strongly in the high 50s, but not in the low 50s.  While less affected by lower temperatures than most S. cerevisiae cultures, it lacks the cryotolerance of a true lager yeast strain because it lacks the S. eubayanus genetic admixture that lager strains enjoy.  One is going to get a large head with 1007 because it is a true top-cropping yeast strain.

Mark, there was a steady stream of bubbles from the airlock.  Not distinguishable as single bubbles, just a constant release of gas.  Pretty much the same for 1728 in my Wee Shroomy.
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Offline Saccharomyces

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Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #154 on: November 20, 2021, 12:50:16 pm »
Well, I kegged the beer I made with S-23.  It did not taste all that different from the beers I made with W-34/70 and Diamond lager.  I am curious as to if Fermentis improved their production process for this culture because I do not sense the nastiness that other people have claimed.  One thing that I can say is that the beer tastes closer to Pilsner Urquell (PU) than the versions I made with W-34/70 and Diamond (the recipe for all three version was identical except the yeast culture), so there is more than genetic sequencing pointing to this culture originating from the same culture as the PU H-Strain.  The beer has the mild floral and fruit signature of PU.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2021, 02:24:03 pm by Saccharomyces »

Offline fredthecat

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Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #155 on: November 20, 2021, 01:00:33 pm »
I am curious as to if Fermentis improved their production process for this culture because I do not sense the nastiness that other people have claimed. 

can't wait till i can state this with my current k-97 batch.

Offline MDL

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Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #156 on: November 20, 2021, 02:08:03 pm »
Mark,

What temp did you pitch and ferment the S23 at?

When I toured the PU brewery and tasted the beer out of the wood fermenters I recall thinking it had similar esters to some of the Kolsch beer we had just been drinking in Cologne.

It really tasted more like cool fermented ale than lager.

The draft beer at PU in the beer garden and surrounding town was more “lager” like. But still very different from German lagers. Fruitier and fuller on the palate.

Offline Saccharomyces

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Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #157 on: November 20, 2021, 02:26:52 pm »
Mark,

What temp did you pitch and ferment the S23 at?

I fermented at 52F until fermentation slowed.  I raised the temperature to 59F until I no longer sensed active fermentation at which time I raised the temperature to 64F.  I achieved 82.75% AA.

Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #158 on: November 20, 2021, 02:57:09 pm »
Mark,

What temp did you pitch and ferment the S23 at?

When I toured the PU brewery and tasted the beer out of the wood fermenters I recall thinking it had similar esters to some of the Kolsch beer we had just been drinking in Cologne.

It really tasted more like cool fermented ale than lager.

The draft beer at PU in the beer garden and surrounding town was more “lager” like. But still very different from German lagers. Fruitier and fuller on the palate.

The reason is that beer in the wood fermenters (open air fermentation) is the original recipe, brewed with the original method. That beer is only for guests who tour the brewery. It is not packaged, or available anywhere outside of the brewery.
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Offline MDL

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Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #159 on: November 20, 2021, 03:18:08 pm »
So does PU use a different yeast for the wood fermented beer?

And did I hear correctly that White Labs Pils type yeast was found to be an ale strain?
« Last Edit: November 20, 2021, 03:21:11 pm by MDL »

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Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #160 on: November 20, 2021, 04:10:41 pm »
I have made two batches with S23 recently. Both have been good. I will definitely add S23 to my list of good dry lager yeasts. I agree it is a bit different than 34/70. I think the beers I have made with it are a bit lighter and crisper.

The first beer was a honey lager. The only problem with this beer was sometimes I found the honey flavors distracting. Most nights I found this one to be a great quaffable yellow lager.

The second beer was a amber lager with Sterling. That beer is very good.  The caramel flavors are pretty strong and the hops are coming through nicely.

Fermentis says S23 is good “for the production of fruitier and more estery lagers.”  I don’t taste any fruity. Sometimes I notice a complexity that I can’t describe well.

Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #161 on: November 20, 2021, 09:15:57 pm »
So does PU use a different yeast for the wood fermented beer?

All I know is the wood open air ferment barrels is the original method and the recipe is their original recipe.
That is what they told us when we toured the brewery.
And it’s a beer brewed exclusively for the guests of the brewery.
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Offline fredthecat

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Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #162 on: November 20, 2021, 10:08:10 pm »
So does PU use a different yeast for the wood fermented beer?

All I know is the wood open air ferment barrels is the original method and the recipe is their original recipe.
That is what they told us when we toured the brewery.
And it’s a beer brewed exclusively for the guests of the brewery.

why would they make the recipe different? you mean they have a different grist and hop schedule for this "special" PU?

Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #163 on: November 21, 2021, 05:44:11 am »
So does PU use a different yeast for the wood fermented beer?

All I know is the wood open air ferment barrels is the original method and the recipe is their original recipe.
That is what they told us when we toured the brewery.
And it’s a beer brewed exclusively for the guests of the brewery.

why would they make the recipe different? you mean they have a different grist and hop schedule for this "special" PU?

We toured the Pilsner Urquell brewery a few years ago. At the very end of the tour, we each received a glass of non-filtered, non-pasteurized beer. This was beer that was fermented in the open air wood barrels, that we passed by during part of the tour.
It is their original recipe. And it is the original brewing method that was employed by the brewery decades ago.

That is all I know. If you want more info on the matter, perhaps contacting the brewery would be of help.

Here is an actual photo of the open air wood barrel fermenter. I thought they were just "props", but the brewery guide explained the whole story to us.





« Last Edit: November 21, 2021, 05:48:50 am by TXFlyGuy »
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #164 on: November 21, 2021, 06:38:38 am »
And did I hear correctly that White Labs Pils type yeast was found to be an ale strain?

Yes, WLP800 is actually Sacch. cerevisiae, i.e., an "ale" strain.  It is not the same as other yeasts but is closely related to Wyeast 2565 Kolsch yeast.  The Kolsch yeasts including WLP800 are located on the left side of this diagram:

https://web.archive.org/web/20210217033607/http://beer.suregork.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Brewing_yeast_tree_Oct_2019.pdf

And this is based on the Langdon, Hittinger, et al. study:

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/709535v1.article-info

See following sheet for summation of these links and many other sources:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16XRUloO3WXqH9Ixsf5vx2DIKDmrEQJ36tLRBmmya7Jo/edit?usp=sharing
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