Author Topic: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast  (Read 5544 times)

Offline Saccharomyces

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1130
  • Deus ex machina
Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #165 on: November 22, 2021, 04:28:57 pm »
S-23 is definitely a lager strain and definitely on the far side of the Frohberg cultures.

Offline fredthecat

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1049
Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #166 on: November 22, 2021, 05:40:45 pm »
S-23 is definitely a lager strain and definitely on the far side of the Frohberg cultures.

i know it's just commentary on observations you've made, but if you ever even combined your thoughts on particular yeasts in an excel file, that would be read by many i believe.  :)

Offline Saccharomyces

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1130
  • Deus ex machina
Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #167 on: November 24, 2021, 02:42:10 pm »
I am just one set of data points.  That being said, I threw out brewing log books that spanned over 20 years during a recent move.   That was before I decided to take the hobby back up in the second half of 2020.  All of my notes are in those log books.

Offline Bel Air Brewing

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 932
Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #168 on: November 24, 2021, 03:55:53 pm »
I am just one set of data points.  That being said, I threw out brewing log books that spanned over 20 years during a recent move.   That was before I decided to take the hobby back up in the second half of 2020.  All of my notes are in those log books.

Yes, each one of us is but a single data point. But the data points are still valid.
Sounds like you "de-cluttered". When in doubt, throw it out.
Bluebonnet Brewoff 2021 Winner:
Munich Helles - 1st Place
Oktoberfest   - 1st Place
English Porter - 3rd Place

Offline Saccharomyces

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1130
  • Deus ex machina
Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #169 on: November 24, 2021, 04:05:07 pm »
Yes, each one of us is but a single data point. But the data points are still valid.
Sounds like you "de-cluttered". When in doubt, throw it out.

In my case, I was trying to make moving easier because I was in transitional stage of my of life.  How much stuff is a person willing to continue to move. Although, I will honest by saying that that information would be valuable today.  There are things I have forgotten.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2021, 09:56:57 am by Saccharomyces »

Offline Wilbur

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 811
Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #170 on: November 25, 2021, 09:41:55 am »
Yes, each one of us is but a single data point. But the data points are still valid.
Sounds like you "de-cluttered". When in doubt, throw it out.

In my case, I was trying to make moving easier because I was in transitional stage of my of life.  How stuff is a person willing to continue to move. Although, I will honest by saying that that information would be valuable today.  There is things I have forgotten.
You might like a rocket book. It's not as nice to write on as normal paper, but it can digitize your notes and allow you to easily upload them to the cloud. After you upload them you can wipe the sheet clean and reuse it. I started doing it because my notes were never where I wanted them to be.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk


Offline RC

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 614
Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #171 on: November 29, 2021, 03:04:46 pm »
I have recently tapped four lagers that I made with (dry) Diamond lager: marzen, vienna, pre-pro, and American. I finally tried this yeast after all the talk on this forum about how great it is. Mash pH's (measured at room temp) ranged from 5.53 - 5.61 and flameout pH's ranged from 5.21 - 5.30. The OGs ranged from 1.047 - 1.057 and each beer got two sachets, rehydrated.

I had high hopes but I am not as impressed as everyone else seems to be, at least on the initial, dry pitch. They are solid, enjoyable beers, but there is a distinct tartness to them that I do not care for and that I do not get from S-189 or 34/70. I am rather annoyed by this tartness.

I am hoping the harvested slurry makes a less tart lager.

Offline fredthecat

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1049
Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #172 on: November 29, 2021, 07:18:41 pm »
I have recently tapped four lagers that I made with (dry) Diamond lager: marzen, vienna, pre-pro, and American. I finally tried this yeast after all the talk on this forum about how great it is. Mash pH's (measured at room temp) ranged from 5.53 - 5.61 and flameout pH's ranged from 5.21 - 5.30. The OGs ranged from 1.047 - 1.057 and each beer got two sachets, rehydrated.

I had high hopes but I am not as impressed as everyone else seems to be, at least on the initial, dry pitch. They are solid, enjoyable beers, but there is a distinct tartness to them that I do not care for and that I do not get from S-189 or 34/70. I am rather annoyed by this tartness.

I am hoping the harvested slurry makes a less tart lager.

appreciate the note. i too am trying it for the first time, it'll be a long while before its ready though. i actually only used one sachet as it was 18litres (~4.5gallons) and about 1.045 gravity

Offline Bel Air Brewing

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 932
Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #173 on: November 29, 2021, 08:24:32 pm »
Regarding Diamond, and a harvested slurry...

Just pitched 2 qts into 11 gallons of wort. The slurry was in a gallon glass jug, and was harvested ten days ago.

I decided to "feed it" with some sterile wort (big mistake). The bottle was shaken up, and left to sit for a few minutes on the counter. Shook it again a few minutes later, and I had a full blown volcano on my hands. Yeast was bubbling out of the bottle under pressure. A more accurate description is the yeast was spraying out of the bottle. Had to immediately pitch the yeast as it was out of control.

This is probably the 10th or maybe 12th generation. I have lost track.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2021, 08:26:18 pm by TXFlyGuy »
Bluebonnet Brewoff 2021 Winner:
Munich Helles - 1st Place
Oktoberfest   - 1st Place
English Porter - 3rd Place

Offline Visor

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 725
Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #174 on: December 01, 2021, 10:33:12 am »
 2 quarts of slurry for 11 gallons, holy crap! Were you aiming for nuclear meltdown? I figure I'm overpitching when I use a 1/2C harvested cake [which I'm guessing equates to ~1C medium slurry] in a 2 qt starter for 7 gallons of wort. Your results are not at all surprising.
I spent most of my money on beer, tools and guns, the rest I foolishly squandered on stupid stuff!

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 24943
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #175 on: December 01, 2021, 10:40:06 am »
Regarding Diamond, and a harvested slurry...

Just pitched 2 qts into 11 gallons of wort. The slurry was in a gallon glass jug, and was harvested ten days ago.

I decided to "feed it" with some sterile wort (big mistake). The bottle was shaken up, and left to sit for a few minutes on the counter. Shook it again a few minutes later, and I had a full blown volcano on my hands. Yeast was bubbling out of the bottle under pressure. A more accurate description is the yeast was spraying out of the bottle. Had to immediately pitch the yeast as it was out of control.

This is probably the 10th or maybe 12th generation. I have lost track.

Have you ever split a batch to experiment with pitching slightly less?  I found I got better results by pitching less, but still sufficient, yeast.  What I perceive as greater cell growth seemed to improve the flavor. Might be worth splitting a batch to see what you think. 
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 10311
  • Milford, MI
Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #176 on: December 01, 2021, 07:31:30 pm »
If you look at the open fermenters at PU, they write the day and pitch temperature  in chalk on the side. I have similar pictures, and the 5C pitch temp is 41F. I have a picture that shows thae temp over a few days as the beer free rises, but never gets too warm.

Might dig that up someday soon.
Jeff Rankert
AHA Lifetime Member
BJCP National
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline Bel Air Brewing

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 932
Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #177 on: December 02, 2021, 05:23:36 am »
Regarding Diamond, and a harvested slurry...

Just pitched 2 qts into 11 gallons of wort. The slurry was in a gallon glass jug, and was harvested ten days ago.

I decided to "feed it" with some sterile wort (big mistake). The bottle was shaken up, and left to sit for a few minutes on the counter. Shook it again a few minutes later, and I had a full blown volcano on my hands. Yeast was bubbling out of the bottle under pressure. A more accurate description is the yeast was spraying out of the bottle. Had to immediately pitch the yeast as it was out of control.

This is probably the 10th or maybe 12th generation. I have lost track.

Have you ever split a batch to experiment with pitching slightly less?  I found I got better results by pitching less, but still sufficient, yeast.  What I perceive as greater cell growth seemed to improve the flavor. Might be worth splitting a batch to see what you think.

Yes, this has been considered recently. And the next harvest will be split.
Thanks!
Bluebonnet Brewoff 2021 Winner:
Munich Helles - 1st Place
Oktoberfest   - 1st Place
English Porter - 3rd Place

Offline Saccharomyces

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1130
  • Deus ex machina
Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #178 on: December 04, 2021, 09:18:43 am »
I hate to admit it, but the batch I made with S-23 is probably the best batch of beer I have made in the entire time I have been brewing.  That admission is difficult for me to make because I have kept an arms distance from dry yeast.  S-23 is more aromatic than W-34/70 or Diamond Lager, but it also does not mute delicate flavors and aromas like W-34/70 and Diamond.  This is the first batch of Bohemian-style Pilsner I made that has the floral, slightly fruity, fresh mown hay aroma with the slightly spicy finish that Pilsner Urquell has when it is fresh.  It also has the same soft mouthfeel.  I am beginning to wonder if this culture is difficult for Fermentis to produce reliably. I know that I was not a fan of the batch of Bohemian-style Pilsner that I made with W-34/70 due to its tartness.  What I do know is the recommendation to ferment at 12C is on the money.  S-23 is definitely my favorite of the three cultures so far, but I tend to prefer pale lagers when I brew lager.  Diamond made an outstanding Vienna.  It is just that it does not allow delicate hop and malt flavors to shine through as well as S-23, which is critical with a beer as naked as Bohemian-style Pilsner.  I believe S-23 would probably be a better yeast culture for true Vienna-style lager that is made with a grist composed mostly of Vienna malt.   I am not certain that its strengths work as well in darker lager styles where one is looking for chewy malt character.

Offline tommymorris

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 3268
Re: Let's Discuss Dry Yeast
« Reply #179 on: December 04, 2021, 09:43:39 am »
I hate to admit it, but the batch I made with S-23 is probably the best batch of beer I have made in the entire time I have been brewing.  That admission is difficult for me to make because I have kept an arms distance from dry yeast.  S-23 is more aromatic than W-34/70 or Diamond Lager, but it also does not mute delicate flavors and aromas like W-34/70 and Diamond.  This is the first batch of Bohemian-style Pilsner I made that has the floral, slightly fruity, fresh mown hay aroma with the slightly spicy finish that Pilsner Urquell has when it is fresh.  It also has the same soft mouthfeel.  I am beginning to wonder if this culture is difficult for Fermentis to produce reliably. I know that I was not a fan of the batch of Bohemian-style Pilsner that I made with W-34/70 due to its tartness.  What I do know is the recommendation to ferment at 12C is on the money.  S-23 is definitely my favorite of the three cultures so far, but I tend to prefer pale lagers when I brew lager.  Diamond made an outstanding Vienna.  It is just that it does not allow delicate hop and malt flavors to shine through as well as S-23, which is critical with a beer as naked as Bohemian-style Pilsner.  I believe S-23 would probably be a better yeast culture for true Vienna-style lager that is made with a grist composed mostly of Vienna malt.   I am not certain that its strengths work as well in darker lager styles where one is looking for chewy malt character.
I have made two batches recently with S-23. Both turned out great. The first was a light lager with 10% honey in the grain bill. The honey came through so well I decided I don’t want honey in my light lagers! It was a distraction.

My second S-23 batch was a SABL style beer. It is quite malty with 7% C60 and. 10% Munich I. Very good beer.