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Author Topic: Wyeast 1469 (a.k.a. Timothy Taylor)  (Read 3708 times)

Offline Saccharomyces

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Wyeast 1469 (a.k.a. Timothy Taylor)
« on: November 22, 2021, 04:21:35 pm »
Many forum members have lauded this yeast culture, but few have lauded the fact that it is a true top-cropping culture.  If one watches the following YouTube, one learns that the standard practice at Timothy Taylor is to top crop.  This fraction of the Timothy Taylor video explains their fermentation process: https://youtu.be/4Cak4stt9v4?t=620.

With that said, here is what a Wyeast 1469 ferment looks like after the brown head has been skimmed and the second head has been allowed to form:



Here's what the head looks like top-cropped (there is still quite a bit of CO2 in the crop):



Here's a closeup photo:



The beauty of top-cropped yeast is that it is naturally purified, which is due to the fact that non-domesticated yeast and bacteria do not floc to the top.  That is why top-cropping breweries can repitch hundreds to thousands of times.  In a typical American craft brewery, bottom settling yeast cultures are preferred.  That is a practical problem for amateur brewers because one cannot place selective pressure on the bottom-settling culture by cropping from the top. Yet, there is the constant threat from native microflora that sets an upper bound on the number of times a culture can be repitched without going back to a seed culture.

In a commercial brewery, the real threat to repitching is the cylindroconical fermentation vessel.  Please do not get me wrong.  Conicals were a major advancement in brewing technology from a production point of view.  It is just that the hydrostatic pressure placed on a culture in the cone of a sizable conical more easily results in yeast cell oxidation via reactive oxygen species (ROS). ROS causes respiratory petites to be formed.  That is not a problem for home brewers because the hydrostatic pressure to which yeast is subjected is trivial.  That means little in the way of petite mutation at the home level.  The bigger threat from home-based breweries is house is house microflora.  What I have learned over the last 29 years is that if one manages a spot in one's home where fermentation takes place regularly well, the dominant microflora in that area tends to become domesticated brewing yeast.  Cleaning and sanitizing usually results in native flora numbers being reduced to a point where they are not a threat.  In essence, the longer a brewery remains in existence, the cleaner its products.  By clean, I do not mean squeaky clean.  I mean free of weird aromas and flavors, even if they are barely at threshold level.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2021, 04:55:17 pm by Saccharomyces »

Offline 4dogbrewer

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Re: Wyeast 1469 (a.k.a. Timothy Taylor)
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2021, 05:06:51 am »
Very good explanation, thanks for this.

Offline fredthecat

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Re: Wyeast 1469 (a.k.a. Timothy Taylor)
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2021, 06:53:59 am »
I love that concept, and I do intend to head that way some day. I had prepared to travel to a nearby city this summer which had a homebrewshop that listed 1469 as in stock. was going to bring a small cooler with icepacks. i phone them just before going and they say theyre out of stock.

sad.



started watching that vid and noticed https://youtu.be/4Cak4stt9v4?t=186

he says the water is "boiled up with salts"?

their water is boiled first?


« Last Edit: November 23, 2021, 07:01:21 am by fredthecat »

Online ynotbrusum

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Re: Wyeast 1469 (a.k.a. Timothy Taylor)
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2021, 10:20:22 am »
Yes, there is a thread somewhere around here (maybe by Martin Brungard?) about pre-boiling water to remove precipitate.

Found it:  https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=5792.0

Cheers.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2021, 10:22:12 am by ynotbrusum »
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Offline fredthecat

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Re: Wyeast 1469 (a.k.a. Timothy Taylor)
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2021, 12:57:01 pm »
Yes, there is a thread somewhere around here (maybe by Martin Brungard?) about pre-boiling water to remove precipitate.

Found it:  https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=5792.0

Cheers.

thanks, im starting to notice certain water recipes really encourage boiling the water first.

Offline denny

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Re: Wyeast 1469 (a.k.a. Timothy Taylor)
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2021, 12:58:12 pm »
Yes, there is a thread somewhere around here (maybe by Martin Brungard?) about pre-boiling water to remove precipitate.

Found it:  https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=5792.0

Cheers.

thanks, im starting to notice certain water recipes really encourage boiling the water first.

It all depends on what your water is like.  Mine would not benefit from it as a way to remove temporary hardness
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Offline Saccharomyces

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Re: Wyeast 1469 (a.k.a. Timothy Taylor)
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2021, 01:39:52 pm »
I do not believe that is what the head brewer meant. From what I understand, the water Timothy Taylor uses comes out of the ground fairly soft.  If one watches the entire video, one will see a bucket full of brewing salts added to the kettle during the boil.  The head brewer discusses how this bucket of brewing salts is in addition to the what is added when they "boil up" their brewing water.  In my humble opinion, what he may mean in American English is the bucket of brewing salts is in addition to the salts that added to the hot liquor while it is being heated to strike temperature.  However, I may be wrong.  The Brits invented hydrated lime (a.k.a. calcium hydroxide or Ca(OH)2) softening, so that they could use water from the River Thames in boiler.  I doubt that they boil to precipitate CaCO3 when Ca(OH)2 will do it without wasting energy.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2021, 04:57:55 pm by Saccharomyces »

Offline Saccharomyces

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Re: Wyeast 1469 (a.k.a. Timothy Taylor)
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2021, 03:55:57 pm »
So far, I am on the fence with this yeast culture.  It is easy enough to use, but the green beer was rough.  It was such a murky fermentation that I should have given it more time to settle out before kegging.

Offline Joshua Hughes

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Re: Wyeast 1469 (a.k.a. Timothy Taylor)
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2021, 08:05:31 pm »
First time using it right now, brewed Saturday. I’ve stirred each day to keep it going. Was going to top crop, didn’t and now the layers are making it more difficult to. I still plan to harvest enough for the next batch and probably one more from batch 2. Assuming it turns out well
« Last Edit: December 07, 2021, 04:58:14 am by Joshua Hughes »

Offline Fire Rooster

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Re: Wyeast 1469 (a.k.a. Timothy Taylor)
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2021, 03:26:38 am »
Basement is now in upper 50's.
Will try to use this yeast when basement warms up in spring.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2021, 03:28:19 am by Fire Rooster »

Offline Descardeci

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Re: Wyeast 1469 (a.k.a. Timothy Taylor)
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2021, 06:49:02 am »
I use this yeast in  brown british ale, honestly I made a lot of mistake in that recipe, I was testing using protein rest, didn't work, my place was a messy when I done, but damn that was beautiful beer, one the best I made and all because of the yeast

Offline Saccharomyces

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Re: Wyeast 1469 (a.k.a. Timothy Taylor)
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2021, 12:06:20 pm »
First time using it right now, brewed Saturday. I’ve stirred each day to keep it going. Was going to top crop, didn’t and now the layers are making it more difficult to. I still plan to harvest enough for the next batch and probably one more from batch 2. Assuming it turns out well

I worked with other Yorkshire cultures where the head needs to be "beaten back" into the fermentation.  However, I did nothing to this fermentation other than to skim and discard the brown head and take my crop a few days later.  I fined the batch with gelatin, so the first few pints were harsh.  I gave the gelatin a work to do its magic and beer is now much clearer and smoother.  It was a challenging batch from the get go, so I am not blaming the yeast culture. What is negatively affecting my perception of this batch is the batch of Bohemian-style Pilsner I brewed before it.  I did not expect much because I used S-23, a yeast with which many people have had trouble.  However, it produced the best batch of beer I have ever made.  Bohemian Pilsner is such a challenging style to make.  Everything is in delicate balance.  I found that W-34/70 and Diamond were not remotely as good as S-23 when it comes to allowing delicate flavors to shine.  The beer has that herbal, slightly fruity, fresh mown hay thing about it that one finds in Pilsner Urquell (PU). It could be improved by decoction mashing. PU has caramelization that is only possible via decoction mashing.  It is subtle, but it is there.

Offline clibit

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Re: Wyeast 1469 (a.k.a. Timothy Taylor)
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2021, 05:11:03 am »
According to the Suregork website the 1469 strain has the following history...

"1469 is meant to come from Timothy Taylor, who got their yeast from Oldham (Greater Manchester bordering Yorkshire), who got their yeast from John Smith’s (Yorkshire brewery). The John Smith yeast also went to Harvey’s (the source of VTT-A81062, a Beer2 strain). So it’s a bit of a surprise that 1469 is in the heart of the UK Beer 1 strains, closest to WLP022 Essex (“Ridleys”). So either the traditional stories aren’t true, there’s been contamination/mixups, or we’re looking at John Smith being some kind of multistrain with both Beer 1’s and Beer 2’s in it. Was fully expecting this to be a Beer2 strain!"

Not sure what this might tell us.

On the conical contamination point, I noted that the Verdant yeast was explained as having been sourced from the Verdant brewery in Cornwall in South West England. Which is highly likely to use conicals. It started life as Wyeast 1318, but Lallemand found it to be a triple strain from which they isolated the "1318" strain, which had obviously drifted. It behaves like 1318 but has apricot and vanilla notes. It seems to back up the point that bottom cropping is less pure than top cropping, which stands to reason of course.

Offline Fire Rooster

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Re: Wyeast 1469 (a.k.a. Timothy Taylor)
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2022, 10:43:02 am »
Basement is now in upper 50's.
Will try to use this yeast when basement warms up in spring.

Couldn't wait, ordered yeast.
Basement is 57 degrees, closet in bedroom is 64 degrees, will ferment in closet.

Offline Fire Rooster

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Re: Wyeast 1469 (a.k.a. Timothy Taylor)
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2022, 01:07:27 pm »
Received 2 pouches of Wyeast 1469 yeast, "Best if used by 30 June 2022".
Only second time using liquid yeast, not creating a starter.
I would rather pitch two to be on the safe side, if necessary.

How old is the yeast ?
Is one pouch enough for 4.5 - 5 Gallons, est ABV 4.5 - 5%,  @ 64 F ?

Thanks
« Last Edit: January 12, 2022, 01:09:09 pm by Fire Rooster »