[Steve Ruch]

Oxiclean works at a lower price, way lower if you use generic.

Awesome, thanks.  What would be the generic name?  LOL.  I am really stupid on this stuff.

Something with oxi or oxy in the name. I used to get it at the Dollar Tree when I lived in Vancouver, but stopped using it when they switched to the perfumed kind.

[Saccharomyces]

Oxiclean works...takes a lot of rinsing. PBW works better.  Craftmeister kicks both their butts.

Plain old-fashioned trisodium phosphate (TSP) kicks all their butts!   Yes, it has a downside, but a little a goes a long way (i.e., we are not taking a bath in it).  A 4.5 pound box of Savogran TSP costs around $12.00 and will easily last a year of brewing if a brewer does not use it with a heavy hand.  TSP is manufactured using sodium carbonate, phosphoric acid, and sodium hydroxide.  Sodium carbonate, a.k.a. washing soda, is at the heart of pretty much all of the alkaline cleaners used today.  Oxyclean uses sodium carbonate and sodium percarbonate, which itself is a mixture of sodium carbonate and hydrogen peroxide.  PBW is basically Oxyclean with the addition of sodium metasilicate.  Sodium metasilicate is part of most fake TSPs (a.k.a. phosphate-free TSP, which is kind of misnomer).  Savogran makes two different TSP products.  The box labeled "TSP" is the real deal.  The box labeled "TSP-PF" is not real TSP.

Here is the safety data sheet for Savogran TSP:  https://savogran.com/pdfs/TSP_MS.pdf

The primary ingredient is this product is trisodium phosphate dodecahydrate with sodium sesquicarbonate playing a supporting role.

Here is the safety datasheet for TSP-PF: https://savogran.com/pdfs/TSP_PF_MS.pdf

The primary ingredient in this product is sodium sesquicarbonate with sodium metasilicate playing a very small supporting role.   TSP-PF is almost literally their TSP product minus the trisodium phosphate.

[EnkAMania]

I'm a Craft Meister Alkaline Brewery Wash puppet.  I had stains in my fermenter that only came out once I used it.  I had issues with PBW dissolving all the way.  I never noticed a difference between Oxyclean and PBW.
 

[redrocker652002]

Oxiclean works...takes a lot of rinsing. PBW works better.  Craftmeister kicks both their butts.

Awesome, thanks.  I still have enough PBW for one more cleaning.  Gonna do both buckets and keg in my new self made keg and bucket washer.  LOL.  It looks horrible, but does the trick, I think.  LOL

FWIW, here's a comparison of PBW and Craftmeister alkaline. https://www.experimentalbrew.com/blogs/drew/craftmeister-cleaners-picturing-carboy-test

Awesome read, and to be honest, I am thinking of their tablet form in 3 gallons of hot water.  I have rigged up a bucket and keg washer that I can pump 3 gallons thru pretty effectively.  Would that be good to do for their recommended soak time?  I am in California, so conserving water is a big deal here.

I prefer the powder to the tablets.  The binder in the tablets makes it harder to rinse.  And I'd rather pay for cleaning ingredients than inert binder.

Cool.  Thank you for the reply.  So, in your opinion, the Alkaline product is the better to use?  I like that it says it will work in cold as well as hot water, that for some reason is a nice feature.   If I can put it thru my bucket washer and not use so much water I would be stocked.  I can order it online or order it for pickup at Morebeer, heck, that will give me a reason to look around.  LOL. 

[redrocker652002]

Oxiclean works...takes a lot of rinsing. PBW works better.  Craftmeister kicks both their butts.

Plain old-fashioned trisodium phosphate (TSP) kicks all their butts!   Yes, it has a downside, but a little a goes a long way (i.e., we are not taking a bath in it).  A 4.5 pound box of Savogran TSP costs around $12.00 and will easily last a year of brewing if a brewer does not use it with a heavy hand.  TSP is manufactured using sodium carbonate, phosphoric acid, and sodium hydroxide.  Sodium carbonate, a.k.a. washing soda, is at the heart of pretty much all of the alkaline cleaners used today.  Oxyclean uses sodium carbonate and sodium percarbonate, which itself is a mixture of sodium carbonate and hydrogen peroxide.  PBW is basically Oxyclean with the addition of sodium metasilicate.  Sodium metasilicate is part of most fake TSPs (a.k.a. phosphate-free TSP, which is kind of misnomer).  Savogran makes two different TSP products.  The box labeled "TSP" is the real deal.  The box labeled "TSP-PF" is not real TSP.

Here is the safety data sheet for Savogran TSP:  https://savogran.com/pdfs/TSP_MS.pdf

The primary ingredient is this product is trisodium phosphate dodecahydrate with sodium sesquicarbonate playing a supporting role.

Here is the safety datasheet for TSP-PF: https://savogran.com/pdfs/TSP_PF_MS.pdf

The primary ingredient in this product is sodium sesquicarbonate with sodium metasilicate playing a very small supporting role.   TSP-PF is almost literally their TSP product minus the trisodium phosphate.

I used to use that to cut thru glossy paint before repainting rooms.  That is about all I know of it. 

[denny]

Oxiclean works...takes a lot of rinsing. PBW works better.  Craftmeister kicks both their butts.

I had good results with Craftmeister  in cold water.
My only gripe is lots of shops don't carry it, and it's cost especially compared to generic Oxiclean.

Quality is seldom less expensive

[denny]

Oxiclean works...takes a lot of rinsing. PBW works better.  Craftmeister kicks both their butts.

Awesome, thanks.  I still have enough PBW for one more cleaning.  Gonna do both buckets and keg in my new self made keg and bucket washer.  LOL.  It looks horrible, but does the trick, I think.  LOL

FWIW, here's a comparison of PBW and Craftmeister alkaline. https://www.experimentalbrew.com/blogs/drew/craftmeister-cleaners-picturing-carboy-test

Awesome read, and to be honest, I am thinking of their tablet form in 3 gallons of hot water.  I have rigged up a bucket and keg washer that I can pump 3 gallons thru pretty effectively.  Would that be good to do for their recommended soak time?  I am in California, so conserving water is a big deal here.

I prefer the powder to the tablets.  The binder in the tablets makes it harder to rinse.  And I'd rather pay for cleaning ingredients than inert binder.

Cool.  Thank you for the reply.  So, in your opinion, the Alkaline product is the better to use?  I like that it says it will work in cold as well as hot water, that for some reason is a nice feature.   If I can put it thru my bucket washer and not use so much water I would be stocked.  I can order it online or order it for pickup at Morebeer, heck, that will give me a reason to look around.  LOL.

I prefer the alkaline because I have a very small water heater in my garage/brewery.  Can't get enough to clean a keg, so the cold water effectiveness is important to me.

[Richard]

If you are trying to save water the ability to rinse off cleanly is important, too. I do try to capture and re-use my rinse water, but the fewer rinses the better. I don't know how any of these products compare on that basis.

[denny]

If you are trying to save water the ability to rinse off cleanly is important, too. I do try to capture and re-use my rinse water, but the fewer rinses the better. I don't know how any of these products compare on that basis.

I've used Oxi, PBW,  and both versions ofnCraftmeister. Oxi takes rhe most rinsing, with PBW almost the same but a bit better. The Craftmeister stuff takes the least rInsing.

[brewthru]

Does TSP remove beer stone?

[hopfenundmalz]

Does TSP remove beer stone?

No, you need an acid for beer stone.

[Steve Ruch]

Oxiclean works...takes a lot of rinsing. PBW works better.  Craftmeister kicks both their butts.

I had good results with Craftmeister  in cold water.
My only gripe is lots of shops don't carry it, and it's cost especially compared to generic Oxiclean.

Quality is seldom less expensive

No argument there, but sometimes your budget forces you to choose.

[denny]

Oxiclean works...takes a lot of rinsing. PBW works better.  Craftmeister kicks both their butts.

I had good results with Craftmeister  in cold water.
My only gripe is lots of shops don't carry it, and it's cost especially compared to generic Oxiclean.

Quality is seldom less expensive

No argument there, but sometimes your budget forces you to choose.

Yep