[denny]

Beertenders are just actors. It's a performance, so that you tip them more. They actually hate their customers (hoo boy, trust me on that). But they put on a good show, and are nice to you so that you feel important...so that you tip them more. It's all performative.

I loathe beertenders because 1) I know how fake they are; 2) they know far less than me about beer, but they pretend to know, and think they know, everything about it--and also they hate you if you try to talk to them about beer because they think you are simply trying to show them up; and 3) they make waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more money than anyone on the brewing staff. I don't think anyone outside the industry realizes that vapid, uneducated people doing nothing more than pulling a handle to fill a glass can make close to upward of $60-80k a year.

Granted, it's stressful to pull a handle and fill a glass. I get it. And wiping a counter/table with a rag takes pretty much everything ya got.

You are so correct about the whetting pressure thing. Where I worked, we'd simply put our ear to the FV and listen for just the right volume of hisssssssss as we turned on the gas. And then a Zahm-check when it tasted right. Kegs were behind a wall from the taproom and literally just a couple of feet from the taps, so we didn't have to worry much about balancing the lines.

...the service they provide...

What service do they provide, exactly? Pulling a handle, filling a glass, and then handing it to me? Why do I need a human to do this? And why am I expected to pay an extra dollar or two for it? The "service" is nothing more than getting a glass filled and handed to you. What you tip on is the intangible, i.e. how nice and cheery and welcoming the server was to you--the performance, in other words.

In Oregon and new Jersey it is illegal to pump your own gas. An attendant has to do it for you. Regardless of why this law came about in the first place, nowadays it's simply a job creation/preservation thing that everyone finds totally ridiculous. How is the beertending model any different? I am hugely in favor of the self-serve model of pouring beer. I would gladly pay more per pint for a wall of tap handles I can pull myself.

So you live in Oregon so you can speak for all of us?  I do not find it totalkky ridiculous.  I prefer it.  We had to pump our own as for a while during COVID and I hated it.

[denny]

Beertenders are just actors. It's a performance, so that you tip them more. They actually hate their customers (hoo boy, trust me on that). But they put on a good show, and are nice to you so that you feel important...so that you tip them more. It's all performative.

I loathe beertenders because 1) I know how fake they are; 2) they know far less than me about beer, but they pretend to know, and think they know, everything about it--and also they hate you if you try to talk to them about beer because they think you are simply trying to show them up; and 3) they make waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more money than anyone on the brewing staff. I don't think anyone outside the industry realizes that vapid, uneducated people doing nothing more than pulling a handle to fill a glass can make close to upward of $60-80k a year.

Granted, it's stressful to pull a handle and fill a glass. I get it. And wiping a counter/table with a rag takes pretty much everything ya got.

You are so correct about the whetting pressure thing. Where I worked, we'd simply put our ear to the FV and listen for just the right volume of hisssssssss as we turned on the gas. And then a Zahm-check when it tasted right. Kegs were behind a wall from the taproom and literally just a couple of feet from the taps, so we didn't have to worry much about balancing the lines.

...the service they provide...

What service do they provide, exactly? Pulling a handle, filling a glass, and then handing it to me? Why do I need a human to do this? And why am I expected to pay an extra dollar or two for it? The "service" is nothing more than getting a glass filled and handed to you. What you tip on is the intangible, i.e. how nice and cheery and welcoming the server was to you--the performance, in other words.

In Oregon and new Jersey it is illegal to pump your own gas. An attendant has to do it for you. Regardless of why this law came about in the first place, nowadays it's simply a job creation/preservation thing that everyone finds totally ridiculous. How is the beertending model any different? I am hugely in favor of the self-serve model of pouring beer. I would gladly pay more per pint for a wall of tap handles I can pull myself.

putting these people on a pedestal (in canada there is no reduced minimum wage for jobs that are assumed to make significant tips, so its even crazier when you realize these oh-so heroic service workers are pulling 30 to 50 dollars an hour) only happens in north america afaik. in most countries its simply the role of someone doing several tasks, cleaning, etc.

again, consider your privilege if you had one of these sweet up front jobs where people are dropping fat tips on you. i was never pretty enough or just "likeable" enough to get these kind of jobs. i was in the back doing the s*** jobs, but i wont ever get any respect for my service. you wouldnt like the look of me.


i don't tip and frankly i love seeing their stupid faux-cheerful facade disappear at the moment i leave without tipping. every time.

So much ignorance of reality

[fredthecat]

deleted by fred (me)

[RC]

So ok, I do owe beertenders an apology. Folks, I am sorry. Some of my comments were insulting, obnoxious, and totally unnecessary. I totally acknowledge that. And I do sincerely mean it when I say I am sorry. Believe it or not, despite my comments, I am not one of those people who treats service workers poorly. Just the opposite. I tip them well and treat them with respect, regardless of how hard they roll their eyes at me when I politely ask them to get me a different beer because the one they just gave me was a diacetyl bomb.

But I do stand by the opinion that, in light of the modern tech of self-serve handles and RFID tech for payment, the job of beertending is completely unnecessary and akin to the old-fashioned gas station attendant who pumped gas for you. The current model won't go away anytime soon, because of course paradigms are hard to change. But I would much rather go to a self-serve establishment rather than wait in (usually a long) line and eventually order from a beetender that may or may not be having a good day. I do not immediately see what reality or knowledge I am being ignorant of when I share the opinion that the job of beertending is totally unnecessary. I was in the industry for a while and interfaced closely with the front of the house and I feel like I know what I am talking about.

But back to this: My comments were totally out of line, and I apologize to all.

[fredthecat]

deleted by fred (me)

[majorvices]

So ok, I do owe beertenders an apology. Folks, I am sorry. Some of my comments were insulting, obnoxious, and totally unnecessary. I totally acknowledge that. And I do sincerely mean it when I say I am sorry. Believe it or not, despite my comments, I am not one of those people who treats service workers poorly. Just the opposite. I tip them well and treat them with respect, regardless of how hard they roll their eyes at me when I politely ask them to get me a different beer because the one they just gave me was a diacetyl bomb.

But I do stand by the opinion that, in light of the modern tech of self-serve handles and RFID tech for payment, the job of beertending is completely unnecessary and akin to the old-fashioned gas station attendant who pumped gas for you. The current model won't go away anytime soon, because of course paradigms are hard to change. But I would much rather go to a self-serve establishment rather than wait in (usually a long) line and eventually order from a beetender that may or may not be having a good day. I do not immediately see what reality or knowledge I am being ignorant of when I share the opinion that the job of beertending is totally unnecessary. I was in the industry for a while and interfaced closely with the front of the house and I feel like I know what I am talking about.

But back to this: My comments were totally out of line, and I apologize to all.

On behalf of tap room bar tenders that I manage I accept and appreciate your apology. i will say that I expect tap room bar tenders to be some what educated about the beers they are serving. Also, they have to manage people (guests) as well. They have to answer questions that may be as simple as were the bathroom is or they may have to set up an event. Managing drinkers is a serious duty.

[MDixon]

In Oregon and new Jersey it is illegal to pump your own gas. An attendant has to do it for you.

So you live in Oregon so you can speak for all of us?  I do not find it totalkky ridiculous.  I prefer it.  We had to pump our own as for a while during COVID and I hated it.

Handing my CC to someone so they can squeeze the handle on the pump isn't something I find enjoyable. We still have a few full service stations so if you visit you can always seek those out. As for me, I'd rather pump my own gas and get moving down the road. I have never been to a NJ station that was anything other than slow as molasses.

[hopfenundmalz]

Fun fact. A shaker pint with 1 inch of foam on top up to the rim is 25% foam, due to the shape. Ive measured this.

[narvin]

One thing I'll say is that my priorities have changed as my life as changed.  Although I've enjoyed going to places to chat with the beertenders in the past, at this point I get out so little that I just want to talk to the friends that I'm meeting.  So for me, a self service wall is faster and more convenient. If you enjoy the experience of talking to someone, that's fine.  I also think that at beer bars around here, the staff has gotten less interesting as craft beer has become more trendy.  I haven't noticed that as much at brewery taprooms though.

[majorvices]

In Oregon and new Jersey it is illegal to pump your own gas. An attendant has to do it for you.

So you live in Oregon so you can speak for all of us?  I do not find it totalkky ridiculous.  I prefer it.  We had to pump our own as for a while during COVID and I hated it.

Handing my CC to someone so they can squeeze the handle on the pump isn't something I find enjoyable. We still have a few full service stations so if you visit you can always seek those out. As for me, I'd rather pump my own gas and get moving down the road. I have never been to a NJ station that was anything other than slow as molasses.

Right there's your problem ... you went to New Jersey. Why on earth would you ever do that? 

[MDixon]

One word reason for visiting NJ - work.

What's interesting is both NJ and Oregon tend to have lower gas prices than some neighboring states. I just don't see paying someone to fill a gas tank. It's certainly not an essential worker and the training to insert the CC and fill the tank must take less than 5 minutes in total. It would be fun to drive up with a 1960/1970 GM vehicle and watch them squirm trying to find the gas cap. Earn that money!!!

[denny]

One word reason for visiting NJ - work.

What's interesting is both NJ and Oregon tend to have lower gas prices than some neighboring states. I just don't see paying someone to fill a gas tank. It's certainly not an essential worker and the training to insert the CC and fill the tank must take less than 5 minutes in total. It would be fun to drive up with a 1960/1970 GM vehicle and watch them squirm trying to find the gas cap. Earn that money!!!

Fortunately, I don't mind paying someone to do something I don't want to do.  In fact I prefer it.

[majorvices]

One word reason for visiting NJ - work.

What's interesting is both NJ and Oregon tend to have lower gas prices than some neighboring states. I just don't see paying someone to fill a gas tank. It's certainly not an essential worker and the training to insert the CC and fill the tank must take less than 5 minutes in total. It would be fun to drive up with a 1960/1970 GM vehicle and watch them squirm trying to find the gas cap. Earn that money!!!

Fortunately, I don't mind paying someone to do something I don't want to do.  In fact I prefer it.

Yer not one of these flaky fellows who doesn't own a shovel are ya? 

[denny]

One word reason for visiting NJ - work.

What's interesting is both NJ and Oregon tend to have lower gas prices than some neighboring states. I just don't see paying someone to fill a gas tank. It's certainly not an essential worker and the training to insert the CC and fill the tank must take less than 5 minutes in total. It would be fun to drive up with a 1960/1970 GM vehicle and watch them squirm trying to find the gas cap. Earn that money!!!

Fortunately, I don't mind paying someone to do something I don't want to do.  In fact I prefer it.

Yer not one of these flaky fellows who doesn't own a shovel are ya? 

Hell no.  Got a shed full of various hand and power tools.

[MDixon]

Any gas operated tools?

Seems a bit odd to open the trunk or let down the tailgate, hand the attendant the gas can, and then they take it to fill it up.