[majorvices]

Well, if it's on the internet, it must be true!

+1

[KellerBrauer]

Well, if it's on the internet, it must be true!

Haha!  Well said

[KellerBrauer]

I used a combination of Wyeast #2112, California Lager and Wyeast San Fran Lager #810 in my batch of CC this summer (my supplier didn’t have two packs of the same yeast).  The batch worked out quite well.  But in my opinion, in order to stay true to the style, one would need to ferment using a lager yeast at ale temperature — IMHO

[dmtaylor]

If someone is repackaging and selling something with a different description then I don't approve. At this point I only have Dave's statement about M54 so I am withholding judgement. I don't plan on buying any of that yeast anyway, so the argument is theoretical for me.

There are a multitude of sources for the claim on the interwebs.  Unfortunately I am leaving town momentarily and don't have time to dig up a half dozen for you right now.  Remind me tomorrow or on Saturday, I promise this was not my own idea but has been spread around all over the place, from very credible sources.

Personally, I wouldn't mind using Mangrove Jack if it were available in my area.  I mean, sure, they don't know much about yeast and slap their own descriptions on it, etc., but if it makes good beer and/or if I can figure out which yeast it really is, then I'm game to trying it in my own brews.  It just... isn't sold at all around here, and hardly any of the big online stores in the USA either.

I learned about the repackaging idea in about 2017 or 2018.  However I found credible sources as early as 2015 and 2016:

https://www.homebrewinguk.com/post/play-the-mangrove-jacks-yeast-matching-game-10488783?&trail=15

http://mjyeastsub.blogspot.com/2015/09/i-couldnt-find-yeast-substitution-chart.html

Then in 2018, further sources came along.  My understanding is that Northern_Brewer, suregork, and qq are all microbiologists and/or geneticists.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/mangrove-jack-m42.643290/#post-8449846

https://web.archive.org/web/20210128020455/https://beer.suregork.com/?p=4030#comment-693704

In 2019, there was discussion about this here on the AHA forum, where it was pointed out that the Mangrove Jack packets themselves state: "PACKED IN THE UK FROM IMPORTED AND LOCAL INGREDIENTS.  Packaged in a protected atmosphere."  This is very consistent with the idea that they don't make their own yeast but repack from other producers.

Image:

https://www.sears.com/mangrove-jack-s-ts-071819-003-mangrove-jack-s-craft/p-A051013849#Imagezoom

Discussion from 2019:

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=33883.msg430100#msg430100

So you don't just need to take my own word for it.  The evidence is out there.

[Saccharomyces]

There is no such thing as a California Common yeast strain.  Anchor acquired their current lager culture from Wallerstein Labs in the seventies after Fritz acquired the brewery.  Before that, they were using yeast acquired from other California lager breweries.   What 2112 is is a Christian Schmidt variant and so is Wyeast 2035. The parent culture is Wyeast 2272-PC North American Lager.  Christian Schmidt is genetically related to W-34/70.  As we all know W-34/70 performs well at ale fermentation temperatures (Christian Schmidt is more flocculent).  That is why 2112 performs well at ale fermentation temperatures.  There is just not that much genetic variation in lager cultures due to the hybridization event occurring relatively recently in yeast genus terms.   The Saccharomyces cervisiae genus has been in use for millennia.

[brewthru]

On Tuesday, December 14, 2021 the pain in my lower back, from a herniated disc or two, was minimal enough that I wanted a homebrew. I had my own homebrewed Anchor Steam brewed using California Common yeast. Then, I’m having the Anchor Steam brewed using the S-04 yeast. When taking the initial sip of the S-04 brew I immediately note some esters. Nothing bad, just interesting. Before I began homebrewing, learning about brewing, etc I’d probably not notice the esters.

So, at least to me, there is the difference brewing an Anchor Steam with California Common yeast vs S-04 yeast.