Poll

Could you take a brewer/brewpub seriously who served Bud/Miller/Coors on the tap next to his house-made brews?

Yeah, it makes sense to me
No, why would you do that?
No pants?

Author Topic: Brewpubs that serve BMC  (Read 3916 times)

Offline capozzoli

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1689
  • Lat 40* 6 m. 2.24 s. Long -74* 51 m. 21.75 s.
    • View Profile
    • Capozzoli Metalworks
Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
« Reply #60 on: September 16, 2010, 12:54:50 PM »
If I was going to do it it would be PBR. Good cold and cheap. Even kinda kitch.

Thats why I wouldnt immediately judge a brew pub like the original post suggested I think? Or not take it seriously.

Its all market based. Maybe the original posts brew pub demands "regular beer". in order to hit their numbers. Without it the numbers get smaller.

If you open a business things dont always go as planned. You may have to change and move till you make it work.

But if commerce is your goal, its all supply and demand you will have to find out where the demand is and then fill it with supply.

Is there more mark up potentiality with BMC then micro brew?   

Beer, its whats for dinner.

http://theholyravioli.blogspot.com/

http:// www.thecapo.us

Offline beersk

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1878
  • In the night!
    • View Profile
Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
« Reply #61 on: September 16, 2010, 02:51:05 PM »
As the great Bill Hicks would say, "You're wrong, get over it!"  

Absolutely no BMC taps next to your craft beer that you worked so hard to perfect and get to the level of opening your very own brewpub.  The furthest I can EVER see this going is at least offering that swill in bottles.  
YES, I will drink a BMC once in a while, but NEVER would I put that stuff along side my beer.  And most brewpubs offer a light lager anyway, give the customer that and if they don't like it, don't charge them.
I see selling out all over the place.  Just giving up on opening people up to new beers by offering BMC to people who haven't had the chance to try good beer before.  Maybe selling out is okay with you but it sure ain't with me.  I don't see dollar signs everywhere, I see opportunity to open people up to new beer.  And if they don't like it, well, you lost a customer, but that doesn't mean you won't gain several more by opening someone's eyes.  People will drink your beer.  If you build it, they will come.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2010, 02:54:19 PM by beersk »
Watch out for those Cross Dressing Amateurs!

Offline a10t2

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3163
  • Ask me why I don't like Chico!
    • View Profile
    • SeanTerrill.com
Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
« Reply #62 on: September 16, 2010, 02:59:39 PM »
Is there more mark up potentiality with BMC then micro brew?

For commercial beers, yes. The typical markup on a $3 bottle of Budweiser is more than on a $5 pint of a micro. If you're talking about a brewpub, then maybe not. The margins on self-brewed beer are pretty much unbeatable.

I could easily see a situation in which a brewpub found that it wasn't worth their time and/or fermenter space to brew a light lager though. Especially if they were operating at or near capacity.

Just giving up on opening people up to new beers by offering BMC to people who haven't had the chance to try good beer before.  Maybe selling out is okay with you but it sure ain't with me.

By that logic, my brewpub wouldn't offer a stout, because I don't like them. I wouldn't presume to know more about what my customers want than they do, though.

If you're running a business you've already "sold out". Otherwise you could turn a lot more people on to your beer by selling it at cost, or giving it away.
Beer is like porn. You can buy it, but it's more fun to make your own.
http://seanterrill.com/category/brewing/

Offline Pawtucket Patriot

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1353
  • Rebelling against cheap swill since 2005
    • View Profile
    • Bauhaus Brew Labs
Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
« Reply #63 on: September 16, 2010, 04:41:23 PM »
This debate is framed in a vacuum as far as I'm concerned.  I can't say I've ever been to a brewpub that serves BMC.  Seems highly unusual.  I guess others have, based on comments.
Matt Schwandt | Minneapolis, MN
AHA Member

Partial-Mash Pictorial
All-Grain Pictorial

Offline MrNate

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 967
  • Bridgewater, NJ
    • View Profile
Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
« Reply #64 on: September 16, 2010, 05:18:12 PM »
I dunno, I'm kind of enjoying my armchair publican role here.

For that matter, have you ever seen other micros on tap (other than guest brews, collborative brews, or the like) at a brewpub? I haven't. And if you ran a brewpub, would you have a tap for Sam Adams, Sierra Nevada, or Stone? I wouldn't.
“If one's actions are honest, one does not need the predated confidence of others, only their rational perception.”

Online BrewingRover

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 516
  • Brewing in Flossmoor, IL
    • View Profile
Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
« Reply #65 on: September 16, 2010, 07:44:18 PM »
This debate is framed in a vacuum as far as I'm concerned.  I can't say I've ever been to a brewpub that serves BMC.  Seems highly unusual.  I guess others have, based on comments.

My local brewpub had a Miller Lite tap for years. The brewer finally convinced the owners to drop that for a guest tap a few years ago. He was still stuck with having two fruit beers on all the time, though, as the owners insisted. A lot of this is driven by the local demographics. Their American wheat is their best seller by a long way, I'm told.

I dunno, I'm kind of enjoying my armchair publican role here.

For that matter, have you ever seen other micros on tap (other than guest brews, collborative brews, or the like) at a brewpub? I haven't. And if you ran a brewpub, would you have a tap for Sam Adams, Sierra Nevada, or Stone? I wouldn't.
The local has had an interesting range of guest beers, including a firkin of Surly Darkness one splendid night. My goodness, that's a great beer.
It's such a fine line between stupid and clever.

Offline nicneufeld

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1049
    • View Profile
Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
« Reply #66 on: September 16, 2010, 07:47:48 PM »
Maybe selling out is okay with you but it sure ain't with me.  I don't see dollar signs everywhere, I see opportunity to open people up to new beer. 

And this is why you would be -VERY- lucky to succeed for more than a couple years if you opened a brewpub or a restaurant or some such venture.  I'm not saying you couldn't do it, just that your idealism stacks the odds against you in a market where every homebrewer (and it seems every other one of my friends these days is either thinking of, or starting to get into homebrewing..a good thing!) harbors at some point fanciful dreams of starting a brewery or brewpub.

Selling out gets a bum rap.  I don't go to my day job because I have a fantastic passion for my work...I go to make money and pay my mortgage.  If you start a brewpub without the ultimate goal of paying off the debts you amassed and staying solvent and keeping your house and car and feeding your family, and you're unwilling to compromise on your lofty ideals to attain those, you'll be lucky if you avoid joining the idealists who make up the immensely huge proportion of failed business attempts.  What is it for restaurants?  9 out of 10 fail within a certain period of time?  I don't recall.

Don't get me wrong, a snobbery against commercial beer could work well.....IF your market supports it.  If you are catering to software engineers and middle managers in Redmond WA its really not in your interest to sell BMC or let it be seen around your brewpub.  In that case, $nobbery $ell$.  But in some other markets, if you refuse to stoop, you will fall as a martyr to your own zealous ideals of what beer should be.  If you open up a brewpub as a missionary station to proselytize, you will be lucky to keep it going unless that (nigh-religious snobbery in re beer) sells really well in your market.  And it certainly does in many urban wealthy markets!

Like I said, BMC is more natural than Diet Coke.  I didn't grow up drinking it, is that why you guys hate it with such reeligious fervor?

Offline Mikey

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 397
    • View Profile
Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
« Reply #67 on: September 16, 2010, 07:53:08 PM »
Quote
Don't get me wrong, a snobbery against commercial beer could work well.....IF your market supports it. 

+10,000

I would have quoted the rest of your post,but I (and I'm sure others) get tired of reading the same thing over and over....

Offline richardt

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1227
    • View Profile
Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
« Reply #68 on: September 16, 2010, 08:36:34 PM »
If you're in the brew bar or brew pub or microbrewery/restaurant business, you are in the hospitality business.

The customer is always right.  And a successful business owner who is chasing the profits is going to give the customer what he or she wants.  An artisanal brewer isn't necessarily going to give in to that pressure and would likely be content with a much smaller following (and profits, if any).

We love beer:  good, craft beer.  But, we're enlightened and adventurous.  Most people aren't.  As much as it pains me to say this, my wife doesn't like beer.  Even at my recent once-in-a-lifetime tapping party at the local brewpub (when my award-winning recipe got scaled up on a commercial system and brewed for public consumption)--my lovely and supportive wife was drinking ...white wine. ???  And, because of limited demand, some brewpubs just can't move certain beers quickly (e.g., stout) compared to house faves like pale ales or IPA's.

Most brewpubs make more money on food than booze.  (Not to mention that the alcohol licenses are cheaper in my state if the >51% food / >49% beer/booze rule is intact).  The microbrews might be what gets some people in the door, but the ambience, novelty, and food is what brings along the company and pays the bills.

I can be a proud man and a patriot.  If I ran a brewpub, and if I could remain in the black, it would only be the American microbrews on tap (my own, then other local, regional, and nationwide beers).  Of course, I'd probably end up with a special "reserve" list of (domestic and foreign) beers for the beer snobs amongst my clientelle who are into style calibrations.

Brand loyalty often breaks on price--you may wish to sell your lager or kolsch for $4/pint and a bottle of BMC lager for $5.  Again, you're in the hospitality business; you're giving the customer what they want (product), but not the price.

As a customer, it would not sit well with me if my wallet and I walked into a brewpub and my bartender, brewer, or brewpub owner were dismissive, rude, or condescending to me about any beer requests.  My money doesn't stink, and neither should your attitude towards customers.

Offline jeffy

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2444
  • Tampa, Fl
    • View Profile
Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
« Reply #69 on: September 17, 2010, 04:36:26 AM »
Lots of people drink Arrogant Bastard in spite of the flagrant proclamation that you are not worthy.  They've made insulting the consumer work for them and they're militant against bland macro beers.
I know they are not a brewpub, but it still is in the same vein as the discussion here.
When the owners of a brewpub start referring to the beers as "product" their ideals may be lost.
Jeff Gladish, Tampa (989.3, 175.1 Apparent Rennarian)
Homebrewing since 1990
AHA member since 1991, now a lifetime member
BJCP judge since 1995

Offline MrNate

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 967
  • Bridgewater, NJ
    • View Profile
Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
« Reply #70 on: September 17, 2010, 05:51:24 AM »
Lots of people drink Arrogant Bastard in spite of the flagrant proclamation that you are not worthy.  They've made insulting the consumer work for them and they're militant against bland macro beers.
I know they are not a brewpub, but it still is in the same vein as the discussion here.
When the owners of a brewpub start referring to the beers as "product" their ideals may be lost.

AB has a much bigger pond to fish in.
“If one's actions are honest, one does not need the predated confidence of others, only their rational perception.”

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *****
  • Posts: 6306
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
« Reply #71 on: September 17, 2010, 05:59:10 AM »

The customer is always right.  And a successful business owner who is chasing the profits is going to give the customer what he or she wants.  An artisanal brewer isn't necessarily going to give in to that pressure and would likely be content with a much smaller following (and profits, if any).


exactly, that's why you have a light, house brewed beer - like a kolsch or helles or wheat on tap.

I guess I'm done with this thread now. I can understand why people think that a brew pub might keep a light beer on tap to keep the lights on. I just think a brew pub would serve its own purposes far better if they kept a light beer of their own creation on tap.

IMO a brewpub that serves BMC goes against its own interest - which is serving good, local, fresh beer (and, of course, food.) I have never been in a brew pub that had any BMC product on tap - I have seen guest taps - but never a Macro tap. And it would seem odd and out of place to me.

I think the best suggestion was what was mentioned above. Charge 4 dollars a beer for house brews and keep some long neck Bud on ice for $8 a bottle.

The only other thing I will say is there is a certain amount of integrity you loose as a promoter of fresh, local, craft beer when you also support Macro type beer. It just doesn't feel right to me. That said, if the issue came down to keeping the lights one - well - you do what you have to do.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2010, 06:00:43 AM by majorvices »
Keith Y.
Self appointed "All Grain" section pruner

Offline bluesman

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 8678
  • Delaware
    • View Profile
Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
« Reply #72 on: September 17, 2010, 06:00:14 AM »
My goal in the grand scheme of things is to promote craft beer as a product.  I really don't think BMC's need any help promoting their products.  ::)  Good craft beer is the whole reason I am here and the reason we are all gathered here at this moment.  I spend everyday of my life working toward the advancement of craft beer within the homebrewing circle. I do not own a brewpub but I frequent brewpubs from time to time and I go to brewpubs to fancy craft beer not BMC.  I would like to believe that most folks do the same. I believe brewpubs are in business to produce and sell craft beer not BMC and would not have a BMC tap or bottle in the house if they could avoid it (reference my previous post). Let's face it folks "our competition is BMC".  

Perhaps the question one should ask themselves while at a brewpub..."Do I want to order a MGD or do I want to order a Munich Helles" as crafted by the brewpub. I personally believe 99% of the folks that are reading this right now will choose the Helles and the other one percent are surfing the web and don't even know what a Munich Helles is.

« Last Edit: September 17, 2010, 06:17:19 AM by bluesman »
Ron Price

Offline Mikey

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 397
    • View Profile
Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
« Reply #73 on: September 17, 2010, 06:40:50 AM »
Chances are if you go to a Mexican restaurant you'll find a hamburger listed, especially on the kids menu. I'm sure they don't really want to do that, but they have to appeal to all and that includes kids.

Same thing goes for BMC. In any group of people, there will likely be someone that wants that Bud Light or MGB 64. You can try and shove a wheat beer or kolsch at them, but I'll bet most will turn it down. Some people are really trying to lose weight and it's damned hard to brew a beer that compares with some of the ultra lights.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2010, 07:25:22 AM by MikeyBrew »

Offline nicneufeld

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1049
    • View Profile
Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
« Reply #74 on: September 17, 2010, 06:56:29 AM »
Chances are if you go to a Mexican restaurant you'll find a hamburger listed, especially on the kids menu. I'm sure they don't really want to do that, but they have to appeal to all and that includes kids.

Good analogy...to take it further, think of your two main sorts of Mexican restaurants...the nice ones obsessed with authenticity and "real" mexican food, that serve small batch mezcal and authentic cuisine from Oaxaca and elsewhere and are kind of in the Rick Bayless mold, and the places that serve chips and salsa, burritos, cheesy enchiladas, beans and rice, and strawberry margaritas.  If you open up the first sort in a well-to-do urban area, you may do very well!  The affluent young set thrives on that sort of thing, and unloads its coffers to the providers thereof.  But say you're opening up a place in a small lakeside town in rural Missouri.  Good luck with that!  This is my point, its all about playing to your market, and if your market can support a pure, packed-to-the-gills-with-ideals brewpub that serves only organic food and on-premise beer and whatever else your personal beliefs lead you to see as righteous, then DO that!  But other markets may require a "mixed" model, with commercial and craft beer, to stay solvent in that area.  Urban Kansas City, most brewpubs just serve onpremise beer.  Morgan County MO, I'd be surprised if the one brewpub I know of there (which piggybacked off of a winery, otherwise I'm not sure they could have afforded to start one) serves only their own beer, because people down there like American lager, and unless you only go to the brewpub with the 3 other craft beer guys in the county, they should have a product for the rest of those folks.