Author Topic: Will it mellow out?  (Read 818 times)

Offline MNWayne

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Will it mellow out?
« on: January 15, 2022, 08:20:16 am »
I've been thinking about making a NEIPA for some time. Read a bunch of recipes and was really inspired by the Survivables Handbook by YCH.  True to my nature I couldn't follow any recipe verbatim, and adjusted as I saw fit.  So I mashed, and I boiled without hops, and I dosed my wort with 2 ounces each of Eukanot, Idaho-7, and Idaho Gem just before chilling (10 gallon batch), cooled, transferred, cooled some more, pitched.  48 hours post pitch everything was humming along quite nicely, I pull a sample for SG, see I'm far enough along, and dose with 5oz CryoPop.  I taste my sample and OH MAN does it taste good. I'm really jazzed.  Next day I pull another SG sample, taste it and WTF... I think I ruined it.  Harsh, bitter, and a strong bite at the back of my throat. Gave it 2 days and dumped the dry-hop charge. I'm nearing terminal gravity, almost time for post ferment dry hop.  Should I go forward with the 2nd dry hopping?  Will that bite at the back of my throat mellow out after everything drops out?
Far better to dare mighty things....

Offline goose

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Re: Will it mellow out?
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2022, 08:37:25 am »
I have found that bitterness tends to mellow after some time in the keg.  With my IPA's the first couple glasses out will be quite bitter and then mellow after a couple weeks.  Dry hopping will add aroma and will add no extra bitterness due to the fact that the alpha acids will not be isomerized (only boiling does that).  Assuming you keg your beer, you can always transfer it to the keg, crash it, let it sit, taste and then add the dry hops for about 3 days.
If you only bottle, then you probably could go ahead and dry hop.
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Offline denny

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Re: Will it mellow out?
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2022, 08:49:06 am »
What you are tasting isn't bitterness....it's tannic harshness from the hop overload.
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Offline MNWayne

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Re: Will it mellow out?
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2022, 08:52:12 am »
Will my tannic harshness mellow with time?
Far better to dare mighty things....

Offline jverduin

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Will it mellow out?
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2022, 08:52:59 am »
I've been thinking about making a NEIPA for some time. Read a bunch of recipes and was really inspired by the Survivables Handbook by YCH.  True to my nature I couldn't follow any recipe verbatim, and adjusted as I saw fit.  So I mashed, and I boiled without hops, and I dosed my wort with 2 ounces each of Eukanot, Idaho-7, and Idaho Gem just before chilling (10 gallon batch), cooled, transferred, cooled some more, pitched.  48 hours post pitch everything was humming along quite nicely, I pull a sample for SG, see I'm far enough along, and dose with 5oz CryoPop.  I taste my sample and OH MAN does it taste good. I'm really jazzed.  Next day I pull another SG sample, taste it and WTF... I think I ruined it.  Harsh, bitter, and a strong bite at the back of my throat. Gave it 2 days and dumped the dry-hop charge. I'm nearing terminal gravity, almost time for post ferment dry hop.  Should I go forward with the 2nd dry hopping?  Will that bite at the back of my throat mellow out after everything drops out?
Lookup hop burn or hop bite on the internet and you’ll see a decent amount of information tied to NEIPAs in particular.

I find what you are describing in mine when they are really young. I usually keg by day 6 or 7 and there tends to be a lot of matter in suspension (when I use A24 Dry Hop yeast it’s really noticeable). When I sample it, There tends to be a noticeable burning, scratchy sensation at the back of my throat. It goes away in a few days of post transfer cooling and carbonation. By day 10, I don’t notice much anymore.


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« Last Edit: January 15, 2022, 11:42:35 am by jverduin »

Offline MNWayne

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Re: Will it mellow out?
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2022, 09:02:39 am »
I was considering skipping the post ferment dry hop. Perhaps I will go forward as planned with 2nd dry hopping and encourage the beer to clear with a little gelatin.  With clearing and time I'm hoping that scratchy back-of-the-throat feeling will subside a little.
Far better to dare mighty things....

Offline RC

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Re: Will it mellow out?
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2022, 10:08:59 am »
Hop burn doesn't really go away, IME. Maybe it will mellow after a long time, but by then the hop aroma/flavor may have declined to the point of meh. You can try adding PVPP to pull out some of the polyphenols, but this might be a roll of the dice. The second dose of dry hops will amplify the burn even more, so if it's already unpleasant, you might want to skip that second dose.

Offline denny

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Re: Will it mellow out?
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2022, 10:44:40 am »
Will my tannic harshness mellow with time?

Cold crashing will help precipitate out some of the polyphenols
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Offline Fire Rooster

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Re: Will it mellow out?
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2022, 12:09:09 pm »
My honest thoughts-

5 oz CryoPop  :o Isn't that equal to 10 oz of pellet hops ? CryoPop is very potent
I used 1/2 oz for a 4.5 gallon batch, and thought that was too much.
(2 ounces each of Eukanot, Idaho-7, and Idaho Gem)

16oz (1 lb) of pellet hops  :o

And your considering more hops ?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2022, 12:22:04 pm by Fire Rooster »

Offline MNWayne

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Re: Will it mellow out?
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2022, 01:01:31 pm »
Cryo was only used in the active ferment dry hop. The whirlpool charge of Eukanot, Idaho-7 and Idaho Gem was whole cone hops. The original recipe called for 17 ounces of cryo during active ferment.  That seemed like way too much, so I backed it down to 5 oz cryo.
Far better to dare mighty things....

Offline Fire Rooster

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Re: Will it mellow out?
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2022, 01:52:42 pm »
Cryo was only used in the active ferment dry hop. The whirlpool charge of Eukanot, Idaho-7 and Idaho Gem was whole cone hops. The original recipe called for 17 ounces of cryo during active ferment.  That seemed like way too much, so I backed it down to 5 oz cryo.

17 oz Cryo, wow, that's a big hop punch.

Offline chinaski

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Re: Will it mellow out?
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2022, 01:58:02 pm »
The original recipe called for 17 ounces of cryo during active ferment.  That seemed like way too much, so I backed it down to 5 oz cryo.
That's ludicrous- what volume is that recipe for?  I would check that- I can't imagine spending that much cash on one batch of homebrew.

Offline majorvices

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Re: Will it mellow out?
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2022, 02:30:20 pm »
I have never used cryohop but once you get over .7 oz per gallon of beer dry hops you will start to see diminishing returns.

Offline MNWayne

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Re: Will it mellow out?
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2022, 03:29:26 pm »
Error. I miscalculated.  Recipe called for 8.6oz at active ferment.  11 gallons x 3.8 liters per gallon x 5.8 grams per liter / 28 grams per ounce = 8.66 ounces.  Seemed like a lot so I went with 5oz.  I kept the whirlpool charge pretty close to the recipe and bumped the post ferment charge up just a little.
Far better to dare mighty things....

Offline chinaski

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Re: Will it mellow out?
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2022, 03:34:59 pm »
I have never used cryohop but once you get over .7 oz per gallon of beer dry hops you will start to see diminishing returns.
I add 1 oz. Cryohops to 5-gallons as a hop stand in a pale ale and it's perfect along with some non-cryo leaf keg hops