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Author Topic: Great Hot Side Aereation discussion  (Read 11424 times)

Offline Richard

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Re: Great Hot Side Aereation discussion
« Reply #90 on: February 18, 2022, 10:47:01 pm »
I misspoke (I think) above: misusing SO4 for SO2. Based on past posts as evidence, I tend to get these mixed up.

Does an all barley mash contain SO2?
No

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For those who do BIAB or have an All-in-One system, the one place where oxygen contact can't really be avoided is when lifting the bag/basket and draining the wort into the kettle. What is the best way to mitigate that? I know that at the expense of efficiency one could just yank the grains and not let them drain through the air. Is there an antioxidant that could be added to mitigate the exposure instead? Could ascorbic acid be used? Would the boil destroy any hydrogen peroxide or would it still require a balance of SO2 to counter that? Would straight sulfite be better? I already use campden to eliminate chloramine, so would it be OK to just add extra before the mash or would it need to be added at the end?

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Offline narcout

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Re: Great Hot Side Aereation discussion
« Reply #91 on: February 19, 2022, 09:19:43 am »
Is there an antioxidant that could be added to mitigate the exposure instead?

Yes, and literally everything you want to know about low oxygen brewing can be found here:  https://www.themodernbrewhouse.com/
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Offline Richard

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Re: Great Hot Side Aereation discussion
« Reply #92 on: February 19, 2022, 12:13:56 pm »
Is there an antioxidant that could be added to mitigate the exposure instead?

Yes, and literally everything you want to know about low oxygen brewing can be found here:  https://www.themodernbrewhouse.com/

Yes, but that site is a bit out of date and many of the links are broken. Now that they are charging for access they seem to have stopped maintaining the free site.

I have some Brewtan B that I got for adding to the end of boil and stopped using it because I saw no improvement. I can try adding it to the mash along with some extra campden.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2022, 12:33:16 pm by Richard »
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Offline duelerx

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Re: Great Hot Side Aereation discussion
« Reply #93 on: February 19, 2022, 01:52:56 pm »
What is it out of date? The site works fine and content is up to date.

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Offline Richard

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Re: Great Hot Side Aereation discussion
« Reply #94 on: February 19, 2022, 05:13:35 pm »
Every link I tried in the main text on that page was broken (404 error). The lists of links on the right side worked.
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Offline mainebrewer

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Re: Great Hot Side Aereation discussion
« Reply #95 on: February 20, 2022, 05:00:19 am »
All the links worked for me.
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Offline stpug

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Re: Great Hot Side Aereation discussion
« Reply #96 on: February 20, 2022, 10:06:05 am »
Every link I tried in the main text on that page was broken (404 error). The lists of links on the right side worked.

When the domain moved from the old domain name (www.lowoxygenbrewing.com) to the new domain name (www.themodernbrewhouse.com), many of the old links did not update correctly in WordPress.  While the site admin has been fixing these linkages manually, they have not all been fixed as of yet.  HOWEVER, many/most of the non-working links can be manually fixed on your end in the browser address field to access the information you're after.  You simply need to substitute the new domain name portion for the old domain name portion into the non-working hyperlink, and hit ENTER.

Examples:
Bottling
Broken link: http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/uncategorized/low-oxygen-bottling-methods/
Fixed link: https://www.themodernbrewhouse.com/uncategorized/low-oxygen-bottling-methods/

Canning
Broken link: http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/uncategorized/packaging-canning-beer-home/
Fixed link: https://www.themodernbrewhouse.com/uncategorized/packaging-canning-beer-home/

Unfortunately, the links for the Low O2 Brewing Spreadsheets are broken due to both the domain name issue as well as the domain no longer hosting those files. These things happen and aren't always fixed in a timely fashion due to various circumstances; for instance, the AHA's Forum default theme (this forum) has had their avatar display broken for many many many months with no great push to get it fixed, BUT it doesn't affect the usefulness of the forum nor the level of quality of the content posted, and that would be the same at the other site.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2022, 10:10:24 am by stpug »

Offline BrewNerd

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Re: Great Hot Side Aereation discussion
« Reply #97 on: February 22, 2022, 03:11:46 pm »
The answer to the first viewer question was very enlightening about the lengths those two breweries go on the hot side to preclude oxygen.

Yes, Tobias talked about deoxygenating the process water in addition to the brewing liquor. I hadn't thought about that because I don't have any process water and I am not familiar with large-scale brewing. That whole discussion was about a process so far removed from what I do that it was not relevant to me. It just made me glad I don't have to deal with everything they do.
It's relevant to homebrewing in that we get 20-200x the oxygen exposure that they get. So if they take precautions, shouldn't you with 20-200x more oxidation potential?

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Not necessarily. We don't have a board of directors or customers to satisfy. Just ourselves.

You sound like Ken Grossman. That's why the have the green energy. That's why the have multiple labs.

I'm on both sides of this. The extremes of brewing are where some of the best developments come from. A commercial brewery is looking to make a consistent, long lasting product. As a result, it's worth their time and resources to eliminate sources of oxidation because it helps them pay the bills.

As a home brewer this is dumb and excessive. And I want to do it anyways.  :)

Offline duelerx

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Re: Great Hot Side Aereation discussion
« Reply #98 on: February 22, 2022, 09:44:53 pm »
The answer to the first viewer question was very enlightening about the lengths those two breweries go on the hot side to preclude oxygen.

Yes, Tobias talked about deoxygenating the process water in addition to the brewing liquor. I hadn't thought about that because I don't have any process water and I am not familiar with large-scale brewing. That whole discussion was about a process so far removed from what I do that it was not relevant to me. It just made me glad I don't have to deal with everything they do.
It's relevant to homebrewing in that we get 20-200x the oxygen exposure that they get. So if they take precautions, shouldn't you with 20-200x more oxidation potential?

Sent from my SM-G981U1 using Tapatalk

Not necessarily. We don't have a board of directors or customers to satisfy. Just ourselves.

You sound like Ken Grossman. That's why the have the green energy. That's why the have multiple labs.

I'm on both sides of this. The extremes of brewing are where some of the best developments come from. A commercial brewery is looking to make a consistent, long lasting product. As a result, it's worth their time and resources to eliminate sources of oxidation because it helps them pay the bills.

As a home brewer this is dumb and excessive. And I want to do it anyways.  :)
Reaching world class flavor profile as Sierra Nevada is not dumb

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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Great Hot Side Aereation discussion
« Reply #99 on: February 23, 2022, 09:46:55 am »
The discussion was edifying, to say the least.  I don't know how to handle the decoction in terms of minimizing oxidation, however.  Perhaps that the decoction portion is brought to a full boil will solve the concerns somewhat, together with a gentle stirring and reintroduction to the main mash with minimal splashing... Even so, it seems to be exposing the decoction to more oxygen in the process.  Maybe one of the LODO devotees can elaborate on a work around?
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Offline BrewBama

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Re: Great Hot Side Aereation discussion
« Reply #100 on: December 08, 2023, 09:23:18 pm »
In a related interview: I just listened to Colin Kaminski on the BeerSmith YouTube channel.  He spoke about TPO, his efforts to reduce O2, talking to the LoDo guys, using the Trifecta mix, this full malt flavor palette he gets when using it, etc..  Not a lot of detail but I thought it was interesting nonetheless.

A while back I bought but never used the OxBlox 3D blend MoreBeer sells. After listening I may replace my BtB with it in a small test batch. Given my less than stellar experience with Kmeta I won’t use it in a full batch until I am satisfied I don’t screw up a small batch first. They recommend .3 grams per gal strike water. Sounds reasonable.

Offline Red over White

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Re: Great Hot Side Aereation discussion
« Reply #101 on: December 09, 2023, 01:25:30 am »
Lodo is pretty easy to employ, it's just the personalities associated with it that are hard to defend  <Jesus, Mary and Joseph> in my best Irish brogue.



Offline BrewnWKopperKat

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Re: Great Hot Side Aereation discussion
« Reply #102 on: December 09, 2023, 06:07:36 am »
In a related interview: I just listened to Colin Kaminski on the BeerSmith YouTube channel. [...]

Controlling Oxygen in Beer (#293) also has a number of thoughts on bottle conditioning (separate process from re-packaging from kegs).  #293 probably "pairs well" with Beer Process Control (#269) from about a year ago.

(If the podcast numbers don't make sense at UT, they are also listed / summarized over at beersmith.com)



Offline fredthecat

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Re: Great Hot Side Aereation discussion
« Reply #103 on: December 09, 2023, 10:53:21 am »
Lodo is pretty easy to employ, it's just the personalities associated with it that are hard to defend  <Jesus, Mary and Joseph> in my best Irish brogue.

i was not here for it, but i think regarding a lot of things in brewing there are people who take positions of all or nothing, and they tend to draw more attention than people who are in the middle on topics ie. do a few simple things to minimize oxygen ingress, but not the things requiring heavy cost and time investment because its not worth spending that much to go from 80% reduced oxygen to 99%.

Offline BrewnWKopperKat

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Re: Great Hot Side Aereation discussion
« Reply #104 on: December 10, 2023, 01:24:36 pm »
Lodo is pretty easy to employ, it's just the personalities associated with it that are hard to defend  ...

Innovators are not always the "opinion leaders" that will move an idea forward.  And opinion leaders often take a lot of time to form an opinion on a new idea.

Over the last 12 to 18 months, I'm seeing more "new to LODO" brewers willing to quietly talk about what they are doing (it often shows up in detailed recipes).  I'm also seeing more podcast guests talking about the broader topic of oxygen in brewing and packaging. 

Maybe the "tipping point" is a couple of well edited videos, with highly detailed recipes, that "go viral".  eta: for me, piecing together "LODO" seems to remain 3rd on my list of things to try next.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2023, 01:40:47 pm by BrewnWKopperKat »