[ScallyWag]

I have not been brewing much longer than you have, but here are a few things that are becoming clearer to me.

First, is aging & patience.  I've had several beers that were kind of bad or yucky at the beginning, but by letting them bottle age for a month longer, they became drinkable... after another month, became pretty good...  after another month, were downright tasty.  I've had others that started out as pretty good right off the bat (i.e., 2-3 weeks in bottle) but 2-3 months down the road were magnificent.  I feel like the sweet spot for the beers I make is about 4-5 months after brew-day, and so I need to find a way to be patient until then.  (I generally start trying them out 6-8 weeks after brew day, but I almost always find that the last few bottles are always the best, and I find myself wishing I had waited longer.) 

So I've built a 'pipeline' of staggered product in my basement containing anywhere from 4-8 different batches, trying to build up enough reserve so that I'm not drinking them too early.

That said, it sounds like the beers you brew may be better consumed younger than the beers I brew, but it's worth squirreling a few bottles away from each batch to see for yourself how they age.

Fastidious sanitation is perhaps the biggest factor (and probably goes without saying).  This one is really hard for me, as a guy who used to wash his hands once every few years, and is the human equivalent of Pig-Pen from Charlie Brown.  I am a slob, but homebrewing has forced me out of my comfort zone into being a clean freak (or sort of trying to be, at least) during the brew process.  As much as I hate it, the better I am at cleaning/sanitizing, the better my beer.  #StatingTheObvious

Third thing is grain quality - some malts really are better than others, and while some of them may cost 20 cents more per pound than the cheaper alternative, at my volume (usually 3 gallon to 4.5 gallon batches) it's ridiculous for me to penny pinch, and I can taste the difference.

Thing 3b, speaking of grain:  I am so glad I finally went to crushing my own, instead of buying pre-crushed.  Not just control over the fineness of the milling, but the freshness.  (The latter is not issue if you're buying grain bill batch-by-batch as you go.)  It's another step, but I enjoy it.

Lastly, I don't do temperature control when fermenting, so I pick a yeast that will perform optimally for the temperature ranges my basement will be at for the next 2-3 weeks.  I often do split batches where I try 2 or more different yeasts on the same wort (but in different FVs, obviously) and I often get better results from a second-choice yeast (better suited for those temps) than from the primary yeast I wanted, if that primary yeast was straying into the wrong temperature range. 

I'm not much help re: the specific issue you mentioned (oaky) and maybe very little of my brewing circumstances translates to what you do.  Just remember, if a beer is mediocre, or you have to toss a batch, let it go.  The NEXT one you brew will probably be awesome!

[BrewBama]

Are you brewing all grain or extract?

What yeast are you using?

Extract as of now.  I have used safale 05 so far.  I am going to move into the All Grain arena soon I think with either BIAB or conventional.  I am hoping that will help me out.

Try Bry-97 instead of US-05. It’s similar but better.

I will.  I wanted to try something different, so that is good info.  Thanks.

You might also give Lutra a try. It’s a Norwegian Kveik strain you can get in dry form that ferments at the higher temps you are seeing …and is reportedly very clean and lager-like (I have not tried it).

[Richard]

I have not been brewing much longer than you have, but here are a few things that are becoming clearer to me.

First, is aging & patience.  I've had several beers that were kind of bad or yucky at the beginning, but by letting them bottle age for a month longer, they became drinkable... after another month, became pretty good...  after another month, were downright tasty.  I've had others that started out as pretty good right off the bat (i.e., 2-3 weeks in bottle) but 2-3 months down the road were magnificent.  I feel like the sweet spot for the beers I make is about 4-5 months after brew-day, and so I need to find a way to be patient until then.  (I generally start trying them out 6-8 weeks after brew day, but I almost always find that the last few bottles are always the best, and I find myself wishing I had waited longer.)

That is definitely style-dependent. While heavy stouts may benefit from months of aging, IPA is best consumed fresh. 90 days is what many consider the life of a very hoppy beer before it starts to lose aroma and flavor. For NEIPA it may be even less if you have significant oxygen exposure.

I doubt that your problems are due to the use of extract, unless your extract is very old (unlikely if you shop at MoreBeer). Moving to all grain makes things very complicated, which is why people used to start with extract brewing and only move to all grain once they had perfected their extract process. Sanitation, healthy yeast, temperature control and minimizing oxygen exposure are the most important and there is no difference between extract and all-grain for those.

[redrocker652002]

I have not been brewing much longer than you have, but here are a few things that are becoming clearer to me.

First, is aging & patience.  I've had several beers that were kind of bad or yucky at the beginning, but by letting them bottle age for a month longer, they became drinkable... after another month, became pretty good...  after another month, were downright tasty.  I've had others that started out as pretty good right off the bat (i.e., 2-3 weeks in bottle) but 2-3 months down the road were magnificent.  I feel like the sweet spot for the beers I make is about 4-5 months after brew-day, and so I need to find a way to be patient until then.  (I generally start trying them out 6-8 weeks after brew day, but I almost always find that the last few bottles are always the best, and I find myself wishing I had waited longer.) 

So I've built a 'pipeline' of staggered product in my basement containing anywhere from 4-8 different batches, trying to build up enough reserve so that I'm not drinking them too early.

That said, it sounds like the beers you brew may be better consumed younger than the beers I brew, but it's worth squirreling a few bottles away from each batch to see for yourself how they age.

Fastidious sanitation is perhaps the biggest factor (and probably goes without saying).  This one is really hard for me, as a guy who used to wash his hands once every few years, and is the human equivalent of Pig-Pen from Charlie Brown.  I am a slob, but homebrewing has forced me out of my comfort zone into being a clean freak (or sort of trying to be, at least) during the brew process.  As much as I hate it, the better I am at cleaning/sanitizing, the better my beer.  #StatingTheObvious

Third thing is grain quality - some malts really are better than others, and while some of them may cost 20 cents more per pound than the cheaper alternative, at my volume (usually 3 gallon to 4.5 gallon batches) it's ridiculous for me to penny pinch, and I can taste the difference.

Thing 3b, speaking of grain:  I am so glad I finally went to crushing my own, instead of buying pre-crushed.  Not just control over the fineness of the milling, but the freshness.  (The latter is not issue if you're buying grain bill batch-by-batch as you go.)  It's another step, but I enjoy it.

Lastly, I don't do temperature control when fermenting, so I pick a yeast that will perform optimally for the temperature ranges my basement will be at for the next 2-3 weeks.  I often do split batches where I try 2 or more different yeasts on the same wort (but in different FVs, obviously) and I often get better results from a second-choice yeast (better suited for those temps) than from the primary yeast I wanted, if that primary yeast was straying into the wrong temperature range. 

I'm not much help re: the specific issue you mentioned (oaky) and maybe very little of my brewing circumstances translates to what you do.  Just remember, if a beer is mediocre, or you have to toss a batch, let it go.  The NEXT one you brew will probably be awesome!

Thank you for the write up, lots of useful info there.   Patience is not a virtue for me, and that could very well be my downfall.  The beer I am having issues with has only been in the keg about a week, so it is likely I should wait at least another couple of weeks.  I, like you, need to work on a way to keep kegs "in the bullpen" so to speak without having to keep them cold.  I don't have the room at this point for another fridge or freezer, and my wife has already been more than patient with this as it is now.  So asking for another 100 bucks for a used chest freezer is going to be a problem  LOL.

I am going to put the current keg on the do not disturb list for another few weeks, and I am thinking of brewing a batch and bottling it to see what the difference is.  Maybe I am just not a keg kinda guy.  LOL. 

Thanks again, your info really helps.  RR

[redrocker652002]

I have not been brewing much longer than you have, but here are a few things that are becoming clearer to me.

First, is aging & patience.  I've had several beers that were kind of bad or yucky at the beginning, but by letting them bottle age for a month longer, they became drinkable... after another month, became pretty good...  after another month, were downright tasty.  I've had others that started out as pretty good right off the bat (i.e., 2-3 weeks in bottle) but 2-3 months down the road were magnificent.  I feel like the sweet spot for the beers I make is about 4-5 months after brew-day, and so I need to find a way to be patient until then.  (I generally start trying them out 6-8 weeks after brew day, but I almost always find that the last few bottles are always the best, and I find myself wishing I had waited longer.)

That is definitely style-dependent. While heavy stouts may benefit from months of aging, IPA is best consumed fresh. 90 days is what many consider the life of a very hoppy beer before it starts to lose aroma and flavor. For NEIPA it may be even less if you have significant oxygen exposure.

I doubt that your problems are due to the use of extract, unless your extract is very old (unlikely if you shop at MoreBeer). Moving to all grain makes things very complicated, which is why people used to start with extract brewing and only move to all grain once they had perfected their extract process. Sanitation, healthy yeast, temperature control and minimizing oxygen exposure are the most important and there is no difference between extract and all-grain for those.

Thank you for the info.  I feel that my cleanliness is good, but I could be missing something.  Honestly, it might just be the style of what I am brewing.  My brother made a wheat beer, and did it using all my stuff, and it tasted really good.  So maybe I need to just play with the ingredients a little and see what I come up with.  I am thinking of bottling a batch just to see if it is my kegging that is the problem.  Maybe I am not meant to keg beer.  LOL. 

[Richard]

I have not been brewing much longer than you have, but here are a few things that are becoming clearer to me.

First, is aging & patience.  I've had several beers that were kind of bad or yucky at the beginning, but by letting them bottle age for a month longer, they became drinkable... after another month, became pretty good...  after another month, were downright tasty.  I've had others that started out as pretty good right off the bat (i.e., 2-3 weeks in bottle) but 2-3 months down the road were magnificent.  I feel like the sweet spot for the beers I make is about 4-5 months after brew-day, and so I need to find a way to be patient until then.  (I generally start trying them out 6-8 weeks after brew day, but I almost always find that the last few bottles are always the best, and I find myself wishing I had waited longer.)

That is definitely style-dependent. While heavy stouts may benefit from months of aging, IPA is best consumed fresh. 90 days is what many consider the life of a very hoppy beer before it starts to lose aroma and flavor. For NEIPA it may be even less if you have significant oxygen exposure.

I doubt that your problems are due to the use of extract, unless your extract is very old (unlikely if you shop at MoreBeer). Moving to all grain makes things very complicated, which is why people used to start with extract brewing and only move to all grain once they had perfected their extract process. Sanitation, healthy yeast, temperature control and minimizing oxygen exposure are the most important and there is no difference between extract and all-grain for those.

Thank you for the info.  I feel that my cleanliness is good, but I could be missing something.  Honestly, it might just be the style of what I am brewing.  My brother made a wheat beer, and did it using all my stuff, and it tasted really good.  So maybe I need to just play with the ingredients a little and see what I come up with.  I am thinking of bottling a batch just to see if it is my kegging that is the problem.  Maybe I am not meant to keg beer.  LOL.

It is easier to keep bottled beer free of oxidation because the yeast that do the carbonation will consume the oxygen in the bottle. You need to take great care to purge kegs and do closed transfers to get the same result with kegs. Two of the down sides of bottle conditioned beer are that the beer will often not be as clear, and you have to be careful not to pour the last 1/4" of beer from the bottom of the bottle, where the yeast have settled.

[redrocker652002]

I have not been brewing much longer than you have, but here are a few things that are becoming clearer to me.

First, is aging & patience.  I've had several beers that were kind of bad or yucky at the beginning, but by letting them bottle age for a month longer, they became drinkable... after another month, became pretty good...  after another month, were downright tasty.  I've had others that started out as pretty good right off the bat (i.e., 2-3 weeks in bottle) but 2-3 months down the road were magnificent.  I feel like the sweet spot for the beers I make is about 4-5 months after brew-day, and so I need to find a way to be patient until then.  (I generally start trying them out 6-8 weeks after brew day, but I almost always find that the last few bottles are always the best, and I find myself wishing I had waited longer.)

That is definitely style-dependent. While heavy stouts may benefit from months of aging, IPA is best consumed fresh. 90 days is what many consider the life of a very hoppy beer before it starts to lose aroma and flavor. For NEIPA it may be even less if you have significant oxygen exposure.

I doubt that your problems are due to the use of extract, unless your extract is very old (unlikely if you shop at MoreBeer). Moving to all grain makes things very complicated, which is why people used to start with extract brewing and only move to all grain once they had perfected their extract process. Sanitation, healthy yeast, temperature control and minimizing oxygen exposure are the most important and there is no difference between extract and all-grain for those.

Thank you for the info.  I feel that my cleanliness is good, but I could be missing something.  Honestly, it might just be the style of what I am brewing.  My brother made a wheat beer, and did it using all my stuff, and it tasted really good.  So maybe I need to just play with the ingredients a little and see what I come up with.  I am thinking of bottling a batch just to see if it is my kegging that is the problem.  Maybe I am not meant to keg beer.  LOL.

It is easier to keep bottled beer free of oxidation because the yeast that do the carbonation will consume the oxygen in the bottle. You need to take great care to purge kegs and do closed transfers to get the same result with kegs. Two of the down sides of bottle conditioned beer are that the beer will often not be as clear, and you have to be careful not to pour the last 1/4" of beer from the bottom of the bottle, where the yeast have settled.

What is needed to do a closed transfer?  I am not familiar with that.   

[ynotbrusum]

No-O2 transfers are easy.  Check out the threads here…

Such as:

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=34687.0

[chinaski]

It wouldn't be a bad idea to have a more experienced brewer or judge check out your beer.  They might be able to give you a more targeted set of advice than we can.  If there is a homebrew club around, check into it.  Finally- don't stress, we've all started out at one point that isn't the best beer in the world- but its always our beer that we made.  That is worth a lot!

[majorvices]

I have some issues with the suggestion that beer is dependent on "patience and age". when a beer is brewed and fermented properly it should not need time or age to clear up off flavors. Off flavors in a young beer are signs of quality issues. I've been homebrewing since '96 and professionally brewing since 2010 and it its very rare that a beer with off flavors greatly improves. If there are issues that age needs to clear up it is best to look at your brewing practices.

[denny]

I have some issues with the suggestion that beer is dependent on "patience and age". when a beer is brewed and fermented properly it should not need time or age to clear up off flavors. Off flavors in a young beer are signs of quality issues. I've been homebrewing since '96 and professionally brewing since 2010 and it its very rare that a beer with off flavors greatly improves. If there are issues that age needs to clear up it is best to look at your brewing practices.

THIS!!!

[deckerhand]

I have yet to have that perfect brew day or perfect beer. I am having more fun brewing and tasting what I could create. I enjoy the creation process by just looking at the grain and hops and taking a gamble at times.  Have fun build your own recipes and see what you got,And I can’t stress enough have fun. If you screw up learn move on it don’t sweat it.


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[RC]

I have some issues with the suggestion that beer is dependent on "patience and age". when a beer is brewed and fermented properly it should not need time or age to clear up off flavors. Off flavors in a young beer are signs of quality issues. I've been homebrewing since '96 and professionally brewing since 2010 and it its very rare that a beer with off flavors greatly improves. If there are issues that age needs to clear up it is best to look at your brewing practices.

THIS!!!

But with the caveat that the flavor of a newly kegged beer can clean up dramatically when the yeast settle, and this can take time. There is a lot of crap stuck to yeast cells. As they sediment, they take that crap with them, and the flavor improves. I have had beers go from so-so to fantastic simply because the yeast finally got out of the way.

Attenuation is done when it's done, for sure. But I philosophically agree with ScallyWag on the point that age can improve a homebrew, simply because it allows the yeast to settle, and this alone can dramatically improve a beer. Sure, there may be some oxygen damage occurring also, but the net result can indeed be a better beer after some time, within reason, has elapsed.

[deckerhand]

I have some issues with the suggestion that beer is dependent on "patience and age". when a beer is brewed and fermented properly it should not need time or age to clear up off flavors. Off flavors in a young beer are signs of quality issues. I've been homebrewing since '96 and professionally brewing since 2010 and it its very rare that a beer with off flavors greatly improves. If there are issues that age needs to clear up it is best to look at your brewing practices.

THIS!!!

But to be fair beers like stouts and porters get better with age.  It’s also recommended that you age those style of beers.


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[deckerhand]

I have some issues with the suggestion that beer is dependent on "patience and age". when a beer is brewed and fermented properly it should not need time or age to clear up off flavors. Off flavors in a young beer are signs of quality issues. I've been homebrewing since '96 and professionally brewing since 2010 and it its very rare that a beer with off flavors greatly improves. If there are issues that age needs to clear up it is best to look at your brewing practices.

THIS!!!

But with the caveat that the flavor of a newly kegged beer can clean up dramatically when the yeast settle, and this can take time. There is a lot of crap stuck to yeast cells. As they sediment, they take that crap with them, and the flavor improves. I have had beers go from so-so to fantastic simply because the yeast finally got out of the way.

Attenuation is done when it's done, for sure. But I philosophically agree with ScallyWag on the point that age can improve a homebrew, simply because it allows the yeast to settle, and this alone can dramatically improve a beer. Sure, there may be some oxygen damage occurring also, but the net result can indeed be a better beer after some time, within reason, has elapsed.

I found that if I let my fermentation go to four weeks before I keg or bottle depend on when I’m in the mood to do I have less sediment to worry about and still have a good carbonation if I bottle or keg condition. Now I found that out because I had to go cross country on an emergency with my daughter while a beer was preventing when I got back I bottled it found out there was a very little sediment when it was done bottle conditioning.


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