[ScallyWag]

I have some issues with the suggestion that beer is dependent on "patience and age". when a beer is brewed and fermented properly it should not need time or age to clear up off flavors. Off flavors in a young beer are signs of quality issues. I've been homebrewing since '96 and professionally brewing since 2010 and it its very rare that a beer with off flavors greatly improves. If there are issues that age needs to clear up it is best to look at your brewing practices.

Yes, I suspect this is the case for me.  I'm a newbie (fewer than 30 batches I think) and still getting the hang of things, getting my processes down.  Every batch I'm learning something new that I note to myself "Next time I'm gonna...."  I know I'm making flawed beers, but they're becoming less flawed.  (My last few beers have been very good early, so hopefully that's a sign I'm finally getting the process better.)

But in the meantime, some of us just need more practice before we nail it every time. If a batch still comes up average/mediocre, I'm just saying don't give up on it after the earliest drinks.  Do better on the next batch, but don't pour that disappointing batch down the sink just yet.  (Or send it to me, I'll drink it.)

[majorvices]

I'd say there's 4 things you need to concentrate on to make good beer.

First: Yeast and fermentation is key. You need to have healthy yeast .You need to be sure you pitch enough yeast. For liquid yeast you need to aerate the wort. If you don't want to mess with yeast starters or aeration use dry yeast. You must control fermentation temperature regardless. You can't ferment warm and expect to have good beer. At the very least put your fermenter in a  cooler and rotate out ice packs or frozen water bottles. My basement is at 58-60 degrees this time of the year at that is a perfect ambient temp for most ales. After about 72 hours of fermentation it is ok to raise your fermentation temp into the high 60s/low 70s.

Second: You have to be clean and sanitary once the wort has been boiled. Cleanliness is more important than sanitation. You can't sanitize something that isn't clean.

Third: Avoid oxidation once yeast is pitched. Avoid secondaries if possible. Avoid bottling buckets if possible. Be extra careful when racking.

Four: Use chlorine/chloramine free water that tastes good. If your water tastes good and is chlorine free it should make good beer. If using extract, consider using distilled or RO water since the minerals left over in the original brewers water will be concentrated in the extract.

Everything else after that is just fine tuning. If you concentrate on those four things you will make good beer. Fresh beer is almost always better than aged beer (in most cases).

[berserkbrewing]

I couldn't agree more with most of the replies. Just keep with it and enjoy the process. Take notes of what you do and when you do it. You'll appreciate those notes later. I keep a notebook on the counter and write in it as I go. It can help you catch yourself slacking compared to a previous brew or let you pick a certain point to change somthing on the next one. I'm having a blast since I started brewing again and switched to 1 gallon batches. I've done one recipe 3 times now with the same 3 hops added at different times for bitter, flavor, aroma. The difference is amazing and I've come up with a house brew now. Just go with the flow and with time come experience and quality.

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[Ron756]

I appreciate this thread as a new / novice homebrewer (<3 years brewing, 2 dozen tries).  I was trying to work all grain probably too early in my learning.  I've gone back to using partial mash brewing and DME vice LME, but that is because it stores better. 
I have been brewing mostly 1-to-2-gallon batches.  Majorvices advice on the oxidation is something I have not worked to eliminate, so I will think about it when I bottle the Belgian in the fermenter right now. 

Keith, you mentioned avoiding secondaries.  I ferment using a Fastferment 3 gallon conical for over 1.5-gallon batches, easy to remove the trub by changing the jar at the bottom and then directly bottle from the fermenter.  It looks so much like overkill for smaller batches that I ferment in a bucket when making a 1-to-1.5-gallon batch.  Then a glass secondary.  I siphon directly into the secondary.  What would I lose going directly to bottles from the fermenting bucket?

[majorvices]

Hey Ron, at home I do a lot of 5 liter batches. I use the "Little Mouth Bubbler" from NB with a spigot on the bottom (they call it a "siphon less valve") I either keg or bottle. When bottling I usually cold crash for at least a week, sometimes with some gelatin for fining, then I prime each bottle with about 1/2 tsp of sugar and bottle directly off the fermenter.

I go so far as to fill a small collapsible bag with Co2 and attach this to the bung instead of the air lock so that when the beer condenses it sucks in Co2 instead of air. Then I use the same trick when I bottle -- the Co2 replaces the air in the head space of the fermenter. I don't really have a way to purge the bottles (I could use a beer gun but that is just too much work).

The collapsible bag might be over kill for some people but I like to eliminate as much o2 during the packaging and racking process as possible. It's best to eliminate oxygen as much as possible and for most beer using a secondary is a useless step that just increases DO and does almost nothing for the beer. All the clarification can happen in the fermenter before autolysis happens.

For 5 gallon batches everything goes into a purged corny keg via closed transfer. The keg works like a secondary or bright tanks. I can fine in there and carbonate if I want. 

[denny]

I have some issues with the suggestion that beer is dependent on "patience and age". when a beer is brewed and fermented properly it should not need time or age to clear up off flavors. Off flavors in a young beer are signs of quality issues. I've been homebrewing since '96 and professionally brewing since 2010 and it its very rare that a beer with off flavors greatly improves. If there are issues that age needs to clear up it is best to look at your brewing practices.

THIS!!!

But to be fair beers like stouts and porters get better with age.  It’s also recommended that you age those style of beers.


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I have not found that to be necessarily true.

[redrocker652002]

I appreciate this thread as a new / novice homebrewer (<3 years brewing, 2 dozen tries).  I was trying to work all grain probably too early in my learning.  I've gone back to using partial mash brewing and DME vice LME, but that is because it stores better. 
I have been brewing mostly 1-to-2-gallon batches.  Majorvices advice on the oxidation is something I have not worked to eliminate, so I will think about it when I bottle the Belgian in the fermenter right now. 

Keith, you mentioned avoiding secondaries.  I ferment using a Fastferment 3 gallon conical for over 1.5-gallon batches, easy to remove the trub by changing the jar at the bottom and then directly bottle from the fermenter.  It looks so much like overkill for smaller batches that I ferment in a bucket when making a 1-to-1.5-gallon batch.  Then a glass secondary.  I siphon directly into the secondary.  What would I lose going directly to bottles from the fermenting bucket?

From what I have gathered, and I am sure somebody with more know how than me will chime in, the less you have to move the beer from vessel to vessel the less chance of oxidation.  I have not used a secondary since the first batch I did because most here said it was not needed.  I keg right from the primary bucket, albeit a 5 gallon one, and it has been ok until this time.  But, I think this batch had a lot of stuff going on and I may have screwed up somewhere in the process. 

[majorvices]

I appreciate this thread as a new / novice homebrewer (<3 years brewing, 2 dozen tries).  I was trying to work all grain probably too early in my learning.  I've gone back to using partial mash brewing and DME vice LME, but that is because it stores better. 
I have been brewing mostly 1-to-2-gallon batches.  Majorvices advice on the oxidation is something I have not worked to eliminate, so I will think about it when I bottle the Belgian in the fermenter right now. 

Keith, you mentioned avoiding secondaries.  I ferment using a Fastferment 3 gallon conical for over 1.5-gallon batches, easy to remove the trub by changing the jar at the bottom and then directly bottle from the fermenter.  It looks so much like overkill for smaller batches that I ferment in a bucket when making a 1-to-1.5-gallon batch.  Then a glass secondary.  I siphon directly into the secondary.  What would I lose going directly to bottles from the fermenting bucket?

From what I have gathered, and I am sure somebody with more know how than me will chime in, the less you have to move the beer from vessel to vessel the less chance of oxidation.  I have not used a secondary since the first batch I did because most here said it was not needed.  I keg right from the primary bucket, albeit a 5 gallon one, and it has been ok until this time.  But, I think this batch had a lot of stuff going on and I may have screwed up somewhere in the process.

Yes, as long as you are purging your keg prior to racking and then during any head space after you are on the right track with limiting oxidation.

[denny]

I'll say go back to basics.  It cn be great to get info from more experienced brewers, but it can be an obstacle also.  Sometimes people are so enthralled with the knowledge they've gathered that they can throw everything at you at once, to the point where you become confused about what really matters.  Take it one step at a time.  I made delicious, award winning beers for many years without ever knowing a thing about water chemistry (I'm lucky because my water has no chlorine to deal with). My temp control was putting the fermenter in a bucket of water. Go back to basics and build back up one step at a time.

[redrocker652002]

I'll say go back to basics.  It cn be great to get info from more experienced brewers, but it can be an obstacle also.  Sometimes people are so enthralled with the knowledge they've gathered that they can throw everything at you at once, to the point where you become confused about what really matters.  Take it one step at a time.  I made delicious, award winning beers for many years without ever knowing a thing about water chemistry (I'm lucky because my water has no chlorine to deal with). My temp control was putting the fermenter in a bucket of water. Go back to basics and build back up one step at a time.

Thank you Denny, I think I am going to do that.  Being somebody who likes to fool around and modify stuff, after this keg is done I might see if I can rig up my kegerator to be a dual purpose cooler and fermenter.  I was thinking of getting one of those temp controllers from Amazon and hook it up to keep my temp regulated.  And try to rig up something to transfer my beer from the fermenter into the keg with as little O2 exposure as possible.  All of this is great info and is helping me in my learning.  So I am taking it all in.

I went back and looked at the instructions for the kit and found it said that the beer will taste best 5 weeks after packaging, so maybe I am just not being very patient.  LOL.   

I am thinking of ordering the same kit, doing everything exactly the same only bottling and see if it was something I did wrong or just the kit.  Thoughts? 

Either way, this is all great info, thanks to all who replied and took the time to give me some feedback.  I will get it dialed i eventually. 

[redrocker652002]

Shoot, my other post didn't post.  LOL.

OK, so here is what I am gathering on the subject of closed transfer.  I fill my keg with Starsan, hook up the CO2 to the IN side of the keg.  run a line from the OUT side of the keg into a bucket and drain the starsan into the bucket for later use.  I then take a hose, be it what I have already or what I will make, and run it from the CO2 tank to the bung of the bucket fermenter.  Take another hose and run it from the spigot of the fermenter to the IN port on the keg.  Open the pressure relief valve on the keg and open the CO2 and run a very small amount of pressure into the fermenter.  Open the spigot and let the beer flow.  Once it is done, close the CO2, close the spigot and disconnect all the lines.  I now have done a closed transfer.  Am I close?  Or did I oversimplify?

[erockrph]

I have some issues with the suggestion that beer is dependent on "patience and age". when a beer is brewed and fermented properly it should not need time or age to clear up off flavors. Off flavors in a young beer are signs of quality issues. I've been homebrewing since '96 and professionally brewing since 2010 and it its very rare that a beer with off flavors greatly improves. If there are issues that age needs to clear up it is best to look at your brewing practices.

THIS!!!

But to be fair beers like stouts and porters get better with age.  It’s also recommended that you age those style of beers.


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I have not found that to be necessarily true.

Agreed. I also think we need to be clear on the difference between "conditioning" and "aging". I find that most of my beers hit their prime somewhere around 2-8 weeks after kegging, depending on the style. This improvement is generally from the beer clearing and/or carbonating, and this is really "conditioning" rather than aging. Aging is cellaring a beer for 6 months to a few years, and it only benefits a few select beers. The overwhelming majority of beers are at their peak within a few weeks after fermentation and packaging is complete.

[tommymorris]

Shoot, my other post didn't post.  LOL.

OK, so here is what I am gathering on the subject of closed transfer.  I fill my keg with Starsan, hook up the CO2 to the IN side of the keg.  run a line from the OUT side of the keg into a bucket and drain the starsan into the bucket for later use.  I then take a hose, be it what I have already or what I will make, and run it from the CO2 tank to the bung of the bucket fermenter.  Take another hose and run it from the spigot of the fermenter to the IN port on the keg.  Open the pressure relief valve on the keg and open the CO2 and run a very small amount of pressure into the fermenter.  Open the spigot and let the beer flow.  Once it is done, close the CO2, close the spigot and disconnect all the lines.  I now have done a closed transfer.  Am I close?  Or did I oversimplify?

Seems right. Start with very low pressure and work up as needed. You don’t need much.

[jeffy]

Shoot, my other post didn't post.  LOL.

OK, so here is what I am gathering on the subject of closed transfer.  I fill my keg with Starsan, hook up the CO2 to the IN side of the keg.  run a line from the OUT side of the keg into a bucket and drain the starsan into the bucket for later use.  I then take a hose, be it what I have already or what I will make, and run it from the CO2 tank to the bung of the bucket fermenter.  Take another hose and run it from the spigot of the fermenter to the IN port on the keg.  Open the pressure relief valve on the keg and open the CO2 and run a very small amount of pressure into the fermenter.  Open the spigot and let the beer flow.  Once it is done, close the CO2, close the spigot and disconnect all the lines.  I now have done a closed transfer.  Am I close?  Or did I oversimplify?

Seems right. Start with very low pressure and work up as needed. You don’t need much.

Push the beer into the keg through the “out” side which will fill the keg starting at the bottom and vent the gas on the “in” side or with the pressure relief valve (prv)

[redrocker652002]

Shoot, my other post didn't post.  LOL.

OK, so here is what I am gathering on the subject of closed transfer.  I fill my keg with Starsan, hook up the CO2 to the IN side of the keg.  run a line from the OUT side of the keg into a bucket and drain the starsan into the bucket for later use.  I then take a hose, be it what I have already or what I will make, and run it from the CO2 tank to the bung of the bucket fermenter.  Take another hose and run it from the spigot of the fermenter to the IN port on the keg.  Open the pressure relief valve on the keg and open the CO2 and run a very small amount of pressure into the fermenter.  Open the spigot and let the beer flow.  Once it is done, close the CO2, close the spigot and disconnect all the lines.  I now have done a closed transfer.  Am I close?  Or did I oversimplify?

Seems right. Start with very low pressure and work up as needed. You don’t need much.

Push the beer into the keg through the “out” side which will fill the keg starting at the bottom and vent the gas on the “in” side or with the pressure relief valve (prv)

]

I have a floating tube on my out side, so I don't think it would matter much there.  But, I do appreciate your input.  Thank you   RR