Membership questions? Log in issues? Email info@brewersassociation.org

Author Topic: Q: Adding Fruit to Beer  (Read 2327 times)

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 11326
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
Re: Q: Adding Fruit to Beer
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2022, 08:28:54 am »
There are lots of fun fruits:
Cherrys, Apricots, Pineapple, Mango, Citrus.

Use whatever you want. Common knowledge is you will need lots of strawberries to get any flavor without the additional use of extract.

Offline BrewBama

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 6056
Re: Q: Adding Fruit to Beer
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2022, 10:47:48 am »
Timely article showed up in my inbox: https://beerandbrewing.com/let-fruit-beer-be-fruit-beer/

Offline erockrph

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 7788
  • Chepachet, RI
    • The Hop WHisperer
Re: Q: Adding Fruit to Beer
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2022, 10:55:17 am »
There are lots of fun fruits:
Cherrys, Apricots, Pineapple, Mango, Citrus.

Use whatever you want. Common knowledge is you will need lots of strawberries to get any flavor without the additional use of extract.
I think the biggest issue with strawberries is that acid and sweetness are both needed to "complete" the flavor picture, and most beers don't have enough of either to really get the flavor across. Even real strawberries don't taste like much except for about 2 months out of the year when they are at peak ripeness (in my opinion). Outside of June to mid July I only eat strawberries cut up with pineapple.
Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 11326
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
Re: Q: Adding Fruit to Beer
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2022, 11:45:39 am »
There are lots of fun fruits:
Cherrys, Apricots, Pineapple, Mango, Citrus.

Use whatever you want. Common knowledge is you will need lots of strawberries to get any flavor without the additional use of extract.
I think the biggest issue with strawberries is that acid and sweetness are both needed to "complete" the flavor picture, and most beers don't have enough of either to really get the flavor across. Even real strawberries don't taste like much except for about 2 months out of the year when they are at peak ripeness (in my opinion). Outside of June to mid July I only eat strawberries cut up with pineapple.

That makes sense. That said, the beers I have had strawberry in have not been very good, either. I love strawberries and I love blue berries but neither of them work in beer for me. Of course, that's just like, my opinion, man.

Offline Village Taphouse

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2327
  • Ken from Chicago
    • The new Mayfair Court Brewhouse
Re: Q: Adding Fruit to Beer
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2022, 11:56:55 am »
When I would try this I would buy frozen, unsweetened fruit (natural sugars are there but no added sugar), let them thaw and crush them as best I could and then I think I would bring the mush to 170° or so in a pot to sanitize it as best as possible.  There was some discussion about not bringing the temp higher because it would "set the pectin" and cause some problems with clarity, etc.  I'm pulling this out of long-term memory so if I have misspoken, please correct me.  Then I would add that to a secondary and transfer the finished beer on top, leave it for a week or two and then bottle or keg.  But in doing that, the flat, finished beer would kick up a second fermentation that seemed to go on FOREVER.  There would be enough yeast in the beer to start another fermentation.  That lengthy process ended up drying out the beer.  Also, I do not use secondaries anymore and I threw all of mine out.  So I would have to add the fruit to the main fermenter, let it do its thing and then transfer directly to a keg.  I feel like there are so many caveats to fresh or frozen (or purees) that I always come back around to extracts.  I remember a brewer saying that he would make a wheat beer (50/50 2-row, wheat, one hop addition) and then transfer it to the keg after dropping TWO small tubs of Crystal Light lemonade powder into the keg.  He said it provided the perfect lemon character in the wheat beer.  I know some of you are wincing right now and I get it.  But sometimes you see the finish line and there are a number of ways to get there.  I believe I tried using unsweetened strawberry drink mix one time to get strawberry flavor into a wheat ale.  The result was questionable but it was also a long time ago and I might do it differently now.  The point is that there are various ways to achieve this.  I saw sugar-free raspberry and strawberry syrups at my local grocery store thinking that might be a way to go.  I didn't try it but you never know. 

Another loosely-related tangent:  If you're going to have to add A LOT of fruit to achieve the flavor you want, you're going to run into a volume issue.  You might have to brew only 4 gallons of beer because the rest of the volume might be made up of fruit depending on your vessels and your type of packaging.  Seems like another nod to extracts... you don't have that problem. 
« Last Edit: March 08, 2022, 12:00:25 pm by Village Taphouse »
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline purduekenn

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 420
Re: Q: Adding Fruit to Beer
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2022, 12:53:12 pm »
I've used blueberry puree in a wheat beer and it worked well. When adding fruit to the fermenter I recommend using a mesh bag or a filter when using fruit puree to remove fruit skins to reduce gunk in the bottom of the fermenter. James from Basic Brewing (basicbrewing.com) has added fruit directly to kegged beer. I make mead and have used Amoretti Natural Blueberry and Raspberry Artisan Flavors along with frozen fruit with good results. They have several types of fruit flavoring and I had good results with their products. Some homebrew shops have their products or you can check it out at (amoretti.com).
« Last Edit: March 08, 2022, 02:05:01 pm by purduekenn »

Offline Brewbaker2

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: Q: Adding Fruit to Beer
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2022, 02:03:27 pm »
I probably chime in on every fruit beer thread and I'm sure that I sound like a broken record by now.  I used to try making fruit beers and the issue I always had was the addition of the fruit creating extra/additional fermentation because of the sugars in the fruit and the yeast metabolizing those sugars and drying out the beer making it mouth-puckeringly dry.  That got me into extracts, sugar-free drink mixes, killing the yeast after the fruit was added so the yeast couldn't metabolize and also adding the fruit to the beer when it was cold so the yeast was dormant.  I did have some success with McCormick Raspberry extract that you can get in the grocery store.  There is a strawberry flavor as well but it says it's artificial so I did not try it.  That said, I feel like the world of "flavor extracts" is exploding right now.  My son actually worked at a "flavors" manufacturing plant.  A fellow brewer told me he had a "toasted marshmallow porter" that was delicious.  He started asking about ways to introduce the flavor to the beer, how many marshmallows to roast and when to add them, etc.  I said, "No way that a commercial brewery added toasted marshmallows.  It had to be an extract/flavoring.  A friend of mine told me about a chocolate and peanut butter beer he had.  Same thing... that *HAD* to be a flavoring.  Try checking out OliveNation.com and see what they have in the way of strawberry extracts that are natural.  Good luck & keep us posted.  I'd love to hear if you had success.

Most of those old raspberry wheat type of fruit beers are extract flavored. Some of the modern fruited beers have a massive amount of puree to get intense fruit flavor but then address the drying effect of fermenting all that sugar with an equally massive amount of lactose. That's how those smoothie beers in particular are brewed.

I buy extracts and food grade essential oils for carbonated water. I feel like the extracts available these days are way better than the old ones you used to get at homebrewing shops that were close but always tasted a little medicinal. I bought a sample pack of flavorings from LorAnn which I believe are popular for food production. Although not every flavor is my preference only they cherry gets close to a medicinal flavor and maybe that is just because cherry flavoring is used so much in medicine. They are a bit more candy fruit flavor than actual fruit. The citrus fruit oils I also buy are closer to actual fruit.

I've only added extract once to a beer and that was a questionable raspberry flavoring in a wheat kit that was my second or third homebrew. If I tried again I would add it in the bottling bucket or keg depending on how you serve your beer. You never know if something natural or artificial in the extract will metabolize into something weird by the yeast. The less yeast in contact with the flavoring the better.
Great post and AMEN to the bolded part.  I have been brewing since 1999 and some of the extract in the old days was brutal.  There are much better extracts now.  I know it makes a better story to tell your friends that you climbed the neighbors apple tree and crushed the apples and added them to the beer, etc. but just use a good, gourmet extract and tell them the same story.  :D  Also, if the original poster is a new/newer brewer, I feel compelled to put up the yellow caution flag because packaging your beer when there could be sugars from the fruit still available (and then bottling) could create exploding bottles.  If you decide to add real fruit or a fruit puree with a lot of sugar you're either going to have to let the yeast metabolize those sugars or you're going to have to stop the yeast from metabolizing them.  When yeast metabolizes sugar it creates CO2 so whatever vessel the yeast and sugar are in, it cannot be sealed up.  If it is, pressure will build and bottles would break.  If they were in a keg together the beer would begin to carbonate and possibly overcarbonate.  Making a fruit beer is not for the squeamish.  Lots of little variables but a good flavoring could remove *ALL* of that worry.  You can add it right before bottling or kegging.

When you say "a good flavoring could remove all of that worry" are you meaning a good extract? From all of these responses it sounds like extract is the way I want to go with this first one. Maybe I'll graduate to puree and whole fruit eventually. I'm still a newbie.

Offline Village Taphouse

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2327
  • Ken from Chicago
    • The new Mayfair Court Brewhouse
Re: Q: Adding Fruit to Beer
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2022, 02:35:46 pm »
When you say "a good flavoring could remove all of that worry" are you meaning a good extract? From all of these responses it sounds like extract is the way I want to go with this first one. Maybe I'll graduate to puree and whole fruit eventually. I'm still a newbie.
Yes, I'm saying that an "extract" or "flavoring" as opposed to actual fruit would wipe out every one of those caveats that have been mentioned.  You wouldn't have to worry about using A LOT of fruit, volume issues, overly-dry beer, secondary fermentations, contamination, etc.  I have checked out those Amoretti products mentioned by Purduekenn and they look very good.  It does say that they are "naturally sweetened" so that would concern me a little bit.  Other things:  What happens if you add a sweet fruit flavor to beer and that flavor remains in the beer creating a "sweet beer"?  That needs to be considered.  Raspberry, strawberry, blueberry and even lemon or orange in a beer should come across as tangy and flavorful but not overly sweet and IMO there should be a hint of it without it coming across too strong.  All of these things need to be put into the plan prior to brewing so you know how the beer will come out.  At some point I was going to make a lemon wheat beer and I considered all the ways to introduce the lemon flavor.  In the end I brewed the beer "plain" and if I wanted it that way, I tapped a glass and drank it.  If I wanted lemon, I squeezed a lemon wedge into the beer and rubbed it around the rim and got great, fresh lemon flavor and the beer could be enjoyed both ways.
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline purduekenn

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 420
Re: Q: Adding Fruit to Beer
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2022, 03:40:08 pm »
To clarify my post I've only used Amoretti Artisan Flavoring in mead after fermentation was complete in a mead that had frozen fruit. For example a Raspberry Mead that needed a deeper red color in my opinion. The Amoretti flavoring worked well with the natural fruit in the mead. In my opinion it may be wise to try a smaller batch with flavorings before making a larger brew with fruit flavorings.

Offline Village Taphouse

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2327
  • Ken from Chicago
    • The new Mayfair Court Brewhouse
Re: Q: Adding Fruit to Beer
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2022, 04:06:22 pm »
To clarify my post I've only used Amoretti Artisan Flavoring in mead after fermentation was complete in a mead that had frozen fruit. For example a Raspberry Mead that needed a deeper red color in my opinion. The Amoretti flavoring worked well with the natural fruit in the mead. In my opinion it may be wise to try a smaller batch with flavorings before making a larger brew with fruit flavorings.
When you added the Amoretti, was there yeast present that would have started another fermentation or was that not a concern?  I'm not a meadmaker so I'm not sure how that would look. 
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 27093
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: Q: Adding Fruit to Beer
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2022, 04:22:04 pm »
To clarify my post I've only used Amoretti Artisan Flavoring in mead after fermentation was complete in a mead that had frozen fruit. For example a Raspberry Mead that needed a deeper red color in my opinion. The Amoretti flavoring worked well with the natural fruit in the mead. In my opinion it may be wise to try a smaller batch with flavorings before making a larger brew with fruit flavorings.
When you added the Amoretti, was there yeast present that would have started another fermentation or was that not a concern?  I'm not a meadmaker so I'm not sure how that would look.

I have used Amoretti in beer and don't recall any additional fermentation.  As far as I can find there is no sugar added...could be wrong, though.  https://amoretti.com/collections/natural-artisan-flavors?pf_t_applications=Brewer+Artisans
« Last Edit: March 08, 2022, 04:24:57 pm by denny »
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline purduekenn

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 420
Re: Q: Adding Fruit to Beer
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2022, 05:12:32 pm »
To clarify my post I've only used Amoretti Artisan Flavoring in mead after fermentation was complete in a mead that had frozen fruit. For example a Raspberry Mead that needed a deeper red color in my opinion. The Amoretti flavoring worked well with the natural fruit in the mead. In my opinion it may be wise to try a smaller batch with flavorings before making a larger brew with fruit flavorings.
When you added the Amoretti, was there yeast present that would have started another fermentation or was that not a concern?  I'm not a meadmaker so I'm not sure how that would look.
Yes there is yeast left so I add potassium sorbate before adding Amoretti Artisan Flavoring. I have never had fermentation start again and I monitor the mead to make sure that it is done fermenting before bottling. I have never had issues with fermentation in any of my bottles using Amoretti Artisan Flavoring
« Last Edit: March 08, 2022, 05:17:48 pm by purduekenn »

Offline Village Taphouse

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2327
  • Ken from Chicago
    • The new Mayfair Court Brewhouse
Re: Q: Adding Fruit to Beer
« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2022, 06:56:23 pm »
To clarify my post I've only used Amoretti Artisan Flavoring in mead after fermentation was complete in a mead that had frozen fruit. For example a Raspberry Mead that needed a deeper red color in my opinion. The Amoretti flavoring worked well with the natural fruit in the mead. In my opinion it may be wise to try a smaller batch with flavorings before making a larger brew with fruit flavorings.
When you added the Amoretti, was there yeast present that would have started another fermentation or was that not a concern?  I'm not a meadmaker so I'm not sure how that would look.
Yes there is yeast left so I add potassium sorbate before adding Amoretti Artisan Flavoring. I have never had fermentation start again and I monitor the mead to make sure that it is done fermenting before bottling. I have never had issues with fermentation in any of my bottles using Amoretti Artisan Flavoring
Interesting.  Thanks for that.

So I was just browsing on Amazon and I found THIS and also THIS.  Basically sugar-free fruit-flavored syrups.  I have always been curious if these would work.  For me I would just add some to the keg prior to transferring the beer on top.  As I look around on Amazon I see a ton of flavors.  The question is whether the fruit flavor will come across as sweet because my guess is that it's sweetened with something that is not sugar (Stevia, Nutrasweet, etc) and I would want to steer away from making the beer too sweet.  The balance would have to be just so. 
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline erockrph

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 7788
  • Chepachet, RI
    • The Hop WHisperer
Re: Q: Adding Fruit to Beer
« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2022, 08:37:03 pm »
I've used many flavors from Apex for soda making and they are very good. I haven't used any in a beer or mead yet, but I wouldn't hesitate to use them if I were brewing a flavored beer.

https://www.apexflavors.com/Beverage-Industry
Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer