[Joe_Beer]

I won't get into the LHBS until next week but wanted to brew a batch this weekend. The recipe is:

8lb 2-row
4lb maris otter
14oz flaked oats
9oz carapils

I have Torrified Wheat and Chit on hand in sufficient quantity. Any thoughts on substituting either for the Carapils?

[BrewBama]

I don’t think either is a suitable substitute for carapils. However, that’s not to say you couldn’t choose to use one in the recipe to see what you get.

…or you could just leave it out altogether.

If you mix pils and crystal 50/50 you’ll get closer to carapils IMO.

[Megary]

Putting the discussion as to the usefulness of Carapils aside for the moment, at that %, I think either would be fine.  Or neither.  Just add more base malt.

What is your reason for using Carapils and what type of beer are you intending?

[Joe_Beer]

Putting the discussion as to the usefulness of Carapils aside for the moment, at that %, I think either would be fine.  Or neither.  Just add more base malt.

What is your reason for using Carapils and what type of beer are you intending?

It's a west coast IPA. I guess the carapils is used for head retention or mouthfeel? I've never made it without it so can't say as to whether I could tell a difference.

What is T-wheat and chit usually used for? I purchased both for a different recipe last year.

[Joe_Beer]

I don’t think either is a suitable substitute for carapils. However, that’s not to say you couldn’t choose to use one in the recipe to see what you get.

…or you could just leave it out altogether.

If you mix pils and crystal 50/50 you’ll get closer to carapils IMO.

Good info, thanks! Maybe I'll just up the 2-row and maris by 6oz/3oz each as you suggest.

[dmtaylor]

Carapils is worthless. So are the oats. Might as well just use your base malts.

If this sounds outlandish:

1) I have been drinking, and/but

2) It is indeed what I believe to be true.

[Richard]

When I first started all grain brewing I put 8 oz Carapils in every 5 gallon batch. At some point I stopped, and I haven't noticed any difference. I get great foam and head retention on most of my beers. There are a couple of brown ales where I have had chronic problems, and when I have added 8 oz chit malt I have had great results. If you are adding the Carapils for foam then you could substitute chit malt, or you could leave it out and see what happens.

[RC]

Carapils is indeed useless. It does nothing. Flaked oats also do nothing, at least when they are whole. When I use flaked oats/wheat, I pulverize it to a grits-like consistency (not to flour). Then it does add some heft to the beer.

To each their own, but why flaked oats in a west coast IPA? It's out of place in this style.

[Joe_Beer]

Carapils is indeed useless. It does nothing. Flaked oats also do nothing, at least when they are whole. When I use flaked oats/wheat, I pulverize it to a grits-like consistency (not to flour). Then it does add some heft to the beer.

To each their own, but why flaked oats in a west coast IPA? It's out of place in this style.

Hmm.. I'll take note. I wasn't sure if I should run the oats through the mill with the rest of the grist, or if it would even matter. Might have an interesting result. They do seem to add a slicker mouthfeel to the beer, or is that the Maris malt? This is the only recipe I have which uses Maris.

As far as the style, I don't have much insight into the reasoning behind the recipe it's just one off the internet that I made once and really liked. I'm not too much into the nuances of each style. In the end if my beer doesn't come out crappy, I'm happy

[Joe_Beer]

Carapils is worthless. So are the oats. Might as well just use your base malts.

If this sounds outlandish:

1) I have been drinking, and/but

2) It is indeed what I believe to be true.

  - I'll take your current state into account!

[Joe_Beer]

When I first started all grain brewing I put 8 oz Carapils in every 5 gallon batch. At some point I stopped, and I haven't noticed any difference. I get great foam and head retention on most of my beers.

Maybe I'll give the Chit a go in this recipe. It did notice a difference in head retention on an older recipe I had. I need to figure out a way to brew 1 gallon batches so I can experiment more with these recipes.

[Fire Rooster]

Carapils is worthless.

+1

Within the first 6 months of starting all grain, I stopped using
any malt that can't stand on its own with 50% of the grain bill.
Eventually dropping rye, only because I personally don't care for the flavor.

[dmtaylor]

I'm sober now.  I still have the same opinion. 

If you want better foam and/or body, you need to use RYE.  Chit malt would also work, but I prefer rye.

[narvin]

I'd suggest you brew the beer without it this time to see for yourself before adding in a new variable.  Obviously Carapils is different than base malt, but the question is whether you're getting anything noticeable at that percentage.  And I've also liked some of my recipes more after simplifying.

[Megary]

Putting the discussion as to the usefulness of Carapils aside for the moment, at that %, I think either would be fine.  Or neither.  Just add more base malt.

What is your reason for using Carapils and what type of beer are you intending?

It's a west coast IPA. I guess the carapils is used for head retention or mouthfeel? I've never made it without it so can't say as to whether I could tell a difference.

What is T-wheat and chit usually used for? I purchased both for a different recipe last year.

According to Crisp:
Torrefied Wheat has long been used by brewers up and down the UK to provide additional head potential on all beer styles. The higher molecular weight proteins and glycoproteins are head positive and also promote mouthfeel. It is especially useful when base malts are particularly low in nitrogen/protein.  Torrefied Wheat has a very slightly grain character to it.

According to BestMalz:
BEST Chit Malt is used as a speciality among the functional malts either temporarily or continuously in the mashing process. The slightly dissolved barley malt contains a lot of high-molecular protein compared to a pilsner malt. It is therefore suitable for compensating for very highly dissolved malts and for improving foam. The malt has a particularly large number of so-called inherent starter enzymes. These improve the substance conversion in the starch and thus increase the yield. BEST Chit Malt does not affect the color of the beer.


If you are looking for improved head retention, according to the horse's mouth, either should help.  I've had success with using both Torrified Wheat and Wheat Malt for this purpose.  At least I believe it has helped, having never tried a with wheat/without wheat experiment.

Good luck and keep us posted as to what you do and what the results are.  Cheers!