[brookspn]

I have been reading up on standard American adjunct mash procedures in preparation for doing some Belgian style wheat beers (lambic, wit, etc) and wondered if any of you had done this.  If so, what where the hiccups and what might I need to look out for?

[bonjour]

Do a search on the internet for Classic American Pilsner.  That style typically requires a cereal mash which is whet you are looking for.  I have not done one to this point.

[a10t2]

Does a cereal mash really do anything that boiling the adjuncts doesn't?

Anyway, Palmer covers it pretty well (pg 174, doesn't seem to be in the first edition).

[intrinsic]

Does a cereal mash really do anything that boiling the adjuncts doesn't?

Anyway, Palmer covers it pretty well (pg 174, doesn't seem to be in the first edition).

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't a cereal mash the same thing as boiling? I mean if you are using whole rice (not instant) then you will want to boil it. Same with whole oats. IIRC rolled oats and quick oats can be thrown right into the mash tun. The rolling process gelantize the starch. Same with corn. I believe whole corn needs to be boiled unless it has been rolled and/or flaked.

[brookspn]

With this I will be using raw wheat. 

[jackfromjax]

Here's a great link that I pulled from the Burgundian Babble Belt on Lambics, specifically the use of raw wheat and options (ie...turbid mashing, gelatinizing prior to mashing, or substituting flaked wheat).  Very informative

http://hbd.org/brewery/library/LmbicJL0696.html#Mash

[brewfun]

I've been playing with some adjuncts in certain styles and finding some interesting results.

The boiling of just the adjunct grits (rice, corn, oats or wheat) really helps both soften the grain and liberate starch.  I've figured out that about an 8:1 water to grain ratio (by volume) is helpful in getting the most out of these adjuncts.  It takes about 30 minutes for the starches to be fully gelatinized.  Once the water starts boiling, it just needs to boil slowly to fully cook the grain. I generally have the heat as low as it can go, but still move the grain around. As this goes, the water gets thickened and very silky or creamy in texture.  

I found that oatmeal grits leave a silkier texture than flaked in an Oatmeal Stout.  There also seems to be less acidic character from the roast barley.  

I did not find much of a difference between doing this procedure with unmalted wheat vs. using flaked wheat. However, either of those gives superior body (and color) over malted wheat in a Belgian Witbier.

There's a CAP planned, during the winter.

[Kaiser]

Adding a bit of malt (~10%) to the adjuncts cuts down the viscosity of the cereal mash significantly. I have tested this a while back when I brewed 2 CAPs. One with corn and one with rice.

corn cereal mash at 4 l/kg w/o malt:



corn cereal mash at 4 l/kg w/ malt:



The differences were even more dramatic with rice since rice starch swells much more than corn starch does. w/o malt I would not have been able to stir the mashes and w/ the malt I didn’t have to stir at all. Since I used the cereal mash to raise the main mash from 50C to 63C, I wasn’t able to use a thinner cereal mash.

Kai

[hopfenundmalz]

Find Jeff Renner's CAP article in this list, download and read.  Covers cereal mashes.

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/zymurgy/free-downloads

[dbeechum]

The differences were even more dramatic with rice since rice starch swells much more than corn starch does. w/o malt I would not have been able to stir the mashes and w/ the malt I didn’t have to stir at all.

The Falcons have a recipe we've been known for a while - Dougweiser and yes it's what you think it is. By far the scariest part of it is the rice mash. That stuff is lava hot and spitting mad and Kai's right about the malt. We take the cracked rice and boil it as a porridge for a while before cooling and adding malt. While boiling you have to stir and its a scary barely restrained bear that looks about to break free and napalm your arm.

But wow, once you add the malt - phoomp - the whole thing goes from scary hot goo to scary hot liquid.

[babalu87]

Kai, thats a great tip!

Maybe I'll throw some Munich in the next time I make polenta 

[Kaiser]

But wow, once you add the malt - phoomp - the whole thing goes from scary hot goo to scary hot liquid.

Why don't you add the malt in the beginning and hold it close to 75-80C (168-178F) for a few minutes? the a-aylase starts to denature at that temp but will still be active enough to liquefy the mash. Rice starch also starts to gelatenize around that temperature.

That't what I did with my cereal mash. Dough in at 160, heat to 170 and held it there for 10 min before heating to boiling.

Kai

[babalu87]

But wow, once you add the malt - phoomp - the whole thing goes from scary hot goo to scary hot liquid.

Why don't you add the malt in the beginning and hold it close to 75-80C (168-178F) for a few minutes? the a-aylase starts to denature at that temp but will still be active enough to liquefy the mash. Rice starch also starts to gelatenize around that temperature.

That't what I did with my cereal mash. Dough in at 160, heat to 170 and held it there for 10 min before heating to boiling.

Kai

You need to hit the lottery (or me) so we can open a nice little Brewpub down here off 495 somewhere.
You got the German styles OK  ............ well, maybe I'll do the Weiss beers

[dbeechum]

Why don't you add the malt in the beginning and hold it close to 75-80C (168-178F) for a few minutes?

The process was developed by a fellow Falcon (now deceased) to mimic the exact process that A-B was using in the early 90s when he started tinkering with the brew. Guess most of the members of the club keep doing it the exact same way in his memory.

Given how serious light lager (and pilsner) brewers look to reduce any apparent tannin character in the beer, I wonder if there would be any worry about tannin extract at boil in the middle of rice goop.