[redrocker652002]

As life has gotten in the way, my next brew day has been pushed back to next week.  Probably Friday.  The yeast  I have, liquid, has been sitting in the fridge now for a few weeks.  The date on it still is about 2 months out, so I think I am still good.  My plan is to take the yeast out of the fridge and let it come to room temp on Thursday morning.  Then, break open the smack pack and let it do it's thing for a few hours.  Thursday midmorning I have DME at the ready and a small pot for the boil.  My plan is 100 grams of DME to one quart of bottled water.  Bring it to a boil and boil for about 20 mins.  Does that sound about right?  I think it is what I have been reading as a good recipe.  Then, leave it on the counter at home, which is normally in the high 60's low 70's during the day, and shake it up every so often as I pass by it or think about it.  The container is clear, so I can see how things progress and go from there.  If the yeast does not react then I have some dry Yeast as a backup plan.  Then, when I do my first BIAB recipe with my new stuff on Friday afternoon, add the yeast and let it do it's thing.   

I guess my question, after that long winded post is pretty simple.  Is 100 grams of DME and a quart of water the right measurments for a starter for a 5 gallon batch? 

Sorry to ramble, but each brew day seems to be new for me. 

Thanks to all who suffered thru my long post and read to the end. 

RR

[beerphilmcd]

The answer you seek is in the details. What is the target starting gravity? If it’s 1.045 or below you’re good. If it’s 1.060 or above you need more yeast. It also depends on the yeast strain and objective. For kviek and Belgian strains generally speaking you can pitch a little less yeast.

Bottom line for anything under 1.060 you can get away with 100 grams/1 quart(liter) starter. However it will not be optimal.


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[redrocker652002]

Thank you for the reply.  I input my ingredient list into Brewfather and it came up with an OG of 1.082.  I am doing a double ipa using Elysian Space Dust as my clone recipe.  I am using 1 package of Wyeast 1450 liquid yeast.  The clone recipe I used even specifies not using a starter, but what the heck, I want to give it a try. 

[denny]

As life has gotten in the way, my next brew day has been pushed back to next week.  Probably Friday.  The yeast  I have, liquid, has been sitting in the fridge now for a few weeks.  The date on it still is about 2 months out, so I think I am still good.  My plan is to take the yeast out of the fridge and let it come to room temp on Thursday morning.  Then, break open the smack pack and let it do it's thing for a few hours.  Thursday midmorning I have DME at the ready and a small pot for the boil.  My plan is 100 grams of DME to one quart of bottled water.  Bring it to a boil and boil for about 20 mins.  Does that sound about right?  I think it is what I have been reading as a good recipe.  Then, leave it on the counter at home, which is normally in the high 60's low 70's during the day, and shake it up every so often as I pass by it or think about it.  The container is clear, so I can see how things progress and go from there.  If the yeast does not react then I have some dry Yeast as a backup plan.  Then, when I do my first BIAB recipe with my new stuff on Friday afternoon, add the yeast and let it do it's thing.   

I guess my question, after that long winded post is pretty simple.  Is 100 grams of DME and a quart of water the right measurments for a starter for a 5 gallon batch? 

Sorry to ramble, but each brew day seems to be new for me. 

Thanks to all who suffered thru my long post and read to the end. 

RR

There is no need to pet the yeast come to room temp.  For that matter, there is no need to smack the pack other tha .  To assure yourself of vitality.

There is no need to boil your starter for 20 min. I do 8 min and feel that's overkill. 

Take a look at this....https://www.experimentalbrew.com/blogs/denny/old-dognew-tricks.  I use a at. of water and 3 oz. of THE.

Don't let the cell count thing throw you.  I have found healthy active yeast is much more important than cell count.

Here's a real life example....last Thur. I took a pack of WY3787 out of the fridge.  Best by about a month out. I smacked it, not to verify it, but because I wanted to break the nutrient pouch and get that into the starter.  I pitched it cold into my starter wort, shook the crap out of it, and let it sit overnight.  About 24 hours later I pitched it into my 1.081 wort. Normally I don't aerate but due to the gravity I did this time. In 2 hours I had positive pressure.  In 6 hours, I had active vigorous fermentation.

[goose]

There is no need to boil your starter for 20 min. I do 8 min and feel that's overkill. 


[/quote]

+1.  I make a 10 degree Plato (1.040) starter wort, add a pinch of yeast nutrient for good measure, and boil if for only 7 minutes. I have also done a 5 minute boil on the starter wort with no adverse effects. The  boiling makes the wort homogeneous and sterilizes it.

[Shmello]

I’m interested in Denny’s comment about aeration. I’ve been thinking about trying liquid yeast but have hesitated because I didn’t want to invest in a stir plate and an aeration kit (at least for awhile so as not to push my wife’s tolerance for new supplies arriving at the house).

Is a “shaken not stirred” starter and oxygenation by merely shaking the fermenter going to be adequate for liquid yeast in a normal strength (around 1.060) wort?

[denny]

I’m interested in Denny’s comment about aeration. I’ve been thinking about trying liquid yeast but have hesitated because I didn’t want to invest in a stir plate and an aeration kit (at least for awhile so as not to push my wife’s tolerance for new supplies arriving at the house).

Is a “shaken not stirred” starter and oxygenation by merely shaking the fermenter going to be adequate for liquid yeast in a normal strength (around 1.060) wort?

Absolutely fine.  That's what I do almost always do for beers in that OG range (although I don't shake the fermenter).  Since this was 1.081 I wanted to give it a little extra help.

[Kevin]

These days anything in the neighborhood of 1.060 and under I don't make a starter. On the few occasions

I do make a starter is a SNS made the no earlier than the night before brew day when I'm milling grain and setting up delay timer on the mash tun. I do take the yeast package out of the fridge the morning of brew day but no earlier. There have been times I forgot until late in the day but I don't worry about it.

I also have pretty much stopped worrying about the date on the package. My past 5 brews have been made with free yeast and the reason it was free is because I ask the guys at my LHBS what he has out of date and he will give those away at no charge.

In every instance beer was made and it was good. #NoStressBrewing

[redrocker652002]

As life has gotten in the way, my next brew day has been pushed back to next week.  Probably Friday.  The yeast  I have, liquid, has been sitting in the fridge now for a few weeks.  The date on it still is about 2 months out, so I think I am still good.  My plan is to take the yeast out of the fridge and let it come to room temp on Thursday morning.  Then, break open the smack pack and let it do it's thing for a few hours.  Thursday midmorning I have DME at the ready and a small pot for the boil.  My plan is 100 grams of DME to one quart of bottled water.  Bring it to a boil and boil for about 20 mins.  Does that sound about right?  I think it is what I have been reading as a good recipe.  Then, leave it on the counter at home, which is normally in the high 60's low 70's during the day, and shake it up every so often as I pass by it or think about it.  The container is clear, so I can see how things progress and go from there.  If the yeast does not react then I have some dry Yeast as a backup plan.  Then, when I do my first BIAB recipe with my new stuff on Friday afternoon, add the yeast and let it do it's thing.   

I guess my question, after that long winded post is pretty simple.  Is 100 grams of DME and a quart of water the right measurments for a starter for a 5 gallon batch? 

Sorry to ramble, but each brew day seems to be new for me. 

Thanks to all who suffered thru my long post and read to the end. 

RR

There is no need to pet the yeast come to room temp.  For that matter, there is no need to smack the pack other tha .  To assure yourself of vitality.

There is no need to boil your starter for 20 min. I do 8 min and feel that's overkill. 

Take a look at this....https://www.experimentalbrew.com/blogs/denny/old-dognew-tricks.  I use a at. of water and 3 oz. of THE.

Don't let the cell count thing throw you.  I have found healthy active yeast is much more important than cell count.

Here's a real life example....last Thur. I took a pack of WY3787 out of the fridge.  Best by about a month out. I smacked it, not to verify it, but because I wanted to break the nutrient pouch and get that into the starter.  I pitched it cold into my starter wort, shook the crap out of it, and let it sit overnight.  About 24 hours later I pitched it into my 1.081 wort. Normally I don't aerate but due to the gravity I did this time. In 2 hours I had positive pressure.  In 6 hours, I had active vigorous fermentation.

Thanks Denny, this is good stuff.  So, if I am reading right, I can make my starter say Thursday morning lets say about 10am, let it sit on the counter until later Thursday night, let's say 10pm and put it in the fridge.  On Friday, lets say early afternoon, I can take it out and use it in my cooled wort?  I know I am being very anal about this, but that is how I am. 

Thanks to all for all the input, this is fun stuff and I am learning tons.  Writing a lot of stuff down too. 

[redrocker652002]

These days anything in the neighborhood of 1.060 and under I don't make a starter. On the few occasions

I do make a starter is a SNS made the no earlier than the night before brew day when I'm milling grain and setting up delay timer on the mash tun. I do take the yeast package out of the fridge the morning of brew day but no earlier. There have been times I forgot until late in the day but I don't worry about it.

I also have pretty much stopped worrying about the date on the package. My past 5 brews have been made with free yeast and the reason it was free is because I ask the guys at my LHBS what he has out of date and he will give those away at no charge.

In every instance beer was made and it was good. #NoStressBrewing

I am a bit confused about your statement.  You make the wort the night before, but don't pitch the yeast into it until the morning of?  I was assuming that the idea was to have the yeast in the starter at least the night before?  Sorry for not understanding. 

[Kevin]

These days anything in the neighborhood of 1.060 and under I don't make a starter. On the few occasions

I do make a starter is a SNS made the no earlier than the night before brew day when I'm milling grain and setting up delay timer on the mash tun. I do take the yeast package out of the fridge the morning of brew day but no earlier. There have been times I forgot until late in the day but I don't worry about it.

I also have pretty much stopped worrying about the date on the package. My past 5 brews have been made with free yeast and the reason it was free is because I ask the guys at my LHBS what he has out of date and he will give those away at no charge.

In every instance beer was made and it was good. #NoStressBrewing

I am a bit confused about your statement.  You make the wort the night before, but don't pitch the yeast into it until the morning of?  I was assuming that the idea was to have the yeast in the starter at least the night before?  Sorry for not understanding.

Sorry, I didn't proof read very well. When I make a beer with an original gravity of around 1.060 or less I don't make a starter at all. I just pitch the package of yeast directly into the fermenter and in those cases I take the package out the morning of brew day to warm up some before I pitch. I have forgotten to do this however and just pitched it right out of the refrigerator with no problems.

When I do make a starter I use the Shaken Not Stirred method. I sometimes make this SNS starter the night before brew day but I often wait until the morning of.

I stopped worrying about details that make no difference to me. I used to fuss over every detail of brewing... including starters where I planned exactly how many days ahead of brew day I needed to make it... measured out precisely the amount of water and dry malt extract... boiled and cooled exactly as instructions say... used a stir plate... worried about cell count - the whole fiddly process. Then I stopped and asked myself just what the hell am I doing? This is supposed to be fun. So now unless I am making a big, high gravity beer I don't concern myself too much with yeast starters.

[denny]

These days anything in the neighborhood of 1.060 and under I don't make a starter. On the few occasions

I do make a starter is a SNS made the no earlier than the night before brew day when I'm milling grain and setting up delay timer on the mash tun. I do take the yeast package out of the fridge the morning of brew day but no earlier. There have been times I forgot until late in the day but I don't worry about it.

I also have pretty much stopped worrying about the date on the package. My past 5 brews have been made with free yeast and the reason it was free is because I ask the guys at my LHBS what he has out of date and he will give those away at no charge.

In every instance beer was made and it was good. #NoStressBrewing

I am a bit confused about your statement.  You make the wort the night before, but don't pitch the yeast into it until the morning of?  I was assuming that the idea was to have the yeast in the starter at least the night before?  Sorry for not understanding.

Sorry, I didn't proof read very well. When I make a beer with an original gravity of around 1.060 or less I don't make a starter at all. I just pitch the package of yeast directly into the fermenter and in those cases I take the package out the morning of brew day to warm up some before I pitch. I have forgotten to do this however and just pitched it right out of the refrigerator with no problems.

When I do make a starter I use the Shaken Not Stirred method. I sometimes make this SNS starter the night before brew day but I often wait until the morning of.

I stopped worrying about details that make no difference to me. I used to fuss over every detail of brewing... including starters where I planned exactly how many days ahead of brew day I needed to make it... measured out precisely the amount of water and dry malt extract... boiled and cooled exactly as instructions say... used a stir plate... worried about cell count - the whole fiddly process. Then I stopped and asked myself just what the hell am I doing? This is supposed to be fun. So now unless I am making a big, high gravity beer I don't concern myself too much with yeast starters.

YES!!!!  That last paragraph is my message to homebrewers these days.

[redrocker652002]

These days anything in the neighborhood of 1.060 and under I don't make a starter. On the few occasions

I do make a starter is a SNS made the no earlier than the night before brew day when I'm milling grain and setting up delay timer on the mash tun. I do take the yeast package out of the fridge the morning of brew day but no earlier. There have been times I forgot until late in the day but I don't worry about it.

I also have pretty much stopped worrying about the date on the package. My past 5 brews have been made with free yeast and the reason it was free is because I ask the guys at my LHBS what he has out of date and he will give those away at no charge.

In every instance beer was made and it was good. #NoStressBrewing

I am a bit confused about your statement.  You make the wort the night before, but don't pitch the yeast into it until the morning of?  I was assuming that the idea was to have the yeast in the starter at least the night before?  Sorry for not understanding.

Sorry, I didn't proof read very well. When I make a beer with an original gravity of around 1.060 or less I don't make a starter at all. I just pitch the package of yeast directly into the fermenter and in those cases I take the package out the morning of brew day to warm up some before I pitch. I have forgotten to do this however and just pitched it right out of the refrigerator with no problems.

When I do make a starter I use the Shaken Not Stirred method. I sometimes make this SNS starter the night before brew day but I often wait until the morning of.

I stopped worrying about details that make no difference to me. I used to fuss over every detail of brewing... including starters where I planned exactly how many days ahead of brew day I needed to make it... measured out precisely the amount of water and dry malt extract... boiled and cooled exactly as instructions say... used a stir plate... worried about cell count - the whole fiddly process. Then I stopped and asked myself just what the hell am I doing? This is supposed to be fun. So now unless I am making a big, high gravity beer I don't concern myself too much with yeast starters.

YES!!!!  That last paragraph is my message to homebrewers these days.

Awesome, thank you all for all the input on this.  I have learned that I am just being too detailed.  I am going to just work with what I have, know and have learned from all of you and see where it takes me.  I will probably do the starter the night before, what the heck.  If I forget, then the morning of, because I don't think I will even be ready to pitch it until later on in the afternoon.  Either way, many thanks to all who have read thru my posts and have offered me info and tips.  It is all good stuff.  Be safe all.  RR

[redrocker652002]

Starter made and sitting in a sanitized gallon jug.  Looks like so little, but we shall see.  I have some dry yeast on hand just in case, but I am hopeful.  I put my new kettle together and synched the temp gauge.  Washed and cleaned the chiller, and have my bucket ready for a cleaning and sanitizing.  All ready for my maiden voyage on my new stuff.  We will see how it goes. 

[denny]

Starter made and sitting in a sanitized gallon jug.  Looks like so little, but we shall see.  I have some dry yeast on hand just in case, but I am hopeful.  I put my new kettle together and synched the temp gauge.  Washed and cleaned the chiller, and have my bucket ready for a cleaning and sanitizing.  All ready for my maiden voyage on my new stuff.  We will see how it goes.

Have a good time!