Author Topic: Next brew day  (Read 935 times)

Offline redrocker652002

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Re: Next brew day
« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2022, 08:36:00 pm »
Thanks guys, I kinda knew my numbers would be off, that is just my luck.  LOL.  So, with that being said, I am looking at somewhere around 50% efficiency.  So, maybe getting the grains ground a bit finer next time would be a good start?  Or mash a bit longer?  Any suggestions would be happily accepted, but it looks like I am somewhere in the 50% area. 

Offline narvin

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Re: Next brew day
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2022, 09:31:58 pm »
That's not quite right. You need to use the post-mash (or pre-boil) volume and gravity to figure the mash efficiency, not the amount post-boil. The efficiency into the fermenter is the so-called brewhouse efficiency, but you should be looking at your mash efficiency. 15.5 lbs of grain at 37 points per pound per gallon would have 15.5*37 = 573.5 points per gallon. Divide by 6.5 for the volume and get 88.2 points for 100% efficiency. If you had 45 points pre-boil (SG=1.045) then your mash efficiency was 45/88.2 = 51%.

Except that I directed him to calculate brewhiuse efficiency. I feel like that's the first step to get a handle on overall system efficiency.

And besides, for mash efficiency, you should be using the amount of liquor used, not the amount of wort collected.  So if you had an extra 2 gallons lost to absorption and mash tun dead space, estimate 8.5 gallons of liquor in the mash.  This brings mash efficiency up to 67% which is totally reasonable for no sparge brewing.

I agree with the posts about a finer grain crush, though.  That's been the single biggest efficiency boost for me in batch or no sparge brewing.

Offline redrocker652002

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Re: Next brew day
« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2022, 09:49:52 pm »
That's not quite right. You need to use the post-mash (or pre-boil) volume and gravity to figure the mash efficiency, not the amount post-boil. The efficiency into the fermenter is the so-called brewhouse efficiency, but you should be looking at your mash efficiency. 15.5 lbs of grain at 37 points per pound per gallon would have 15.5*37 = 573.5 points per gallon. Divide by 6.5 for the volume and get 88.2 points for 100% efficiency. If you had 45 points pre-boil (SG=1.045) then your mash efficiency was 45/88.2 = 51%.

Except that I directed him to calculate brewhiuse efficiency. I feel like that's the first step to get a handle on overall system efficiency.

And besides, for mash efficiency, you should be using the amount of liquor used, not the amount of wort collected.  So if you had an extra 2 gallons lost to absorption and mash tun dead space, estimate 8.5 gallons of liquor in the mash.  This brings mash efficiency up to 67% which is totally reasonable for no sparge brewing.

I agree with the posts about a finer grain crush, though.  That's been the single biggest efficiency boost for me in batch or no sparge brewing.

OK, so going with what you said, I started with 6.5 gallons in the mash, sparged with 1.33 gallons of sparge water at 170ish.  I had a false bottom on the kettle that was probably about an inch or so above the bottom of the kettle.  This is all really cool stuff and I am getting some great info.  I am going to work with all of this and see where I go from here.  Thank you all for the input, I know these are all very stupid questions, but I am trying to learn.  RR

Offline redrocker652002

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Re: Next brew day
« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2022, 10:11:38 pm »
OK, so I am fooling around with brewfather and figured out how to change the mash efficiency.  If I drop the mash efficiency to say 68%, it changes my grain amounts significantly to reach the OG of the recipe. but if I change the mash efficiency but left the grain amounts the way they were, my OG went down to closer to where I was.  I know this is old hat to most, but dang this is pretty fun, and I am learning a ton here.  Once I can nail down my mash number, If I input the grain bill and what I want to be my OG, this program will tell me how much of each I need to reach the numbers I want.  This is so cool.  Thanks again. 

If I am becoming a pain in the ass, moderators please feel free to boot me.  I know I am asking stupid questions.  RR
« Last Edit: May 09, 2022, 06:59:52 am by redrocker652002 »

Offline denny

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Re: Next brew day
« Reply #34 on: May 09, 2022, 08:03:21 am »
Thanks guys, I kinda knew my numbers would be off, that is just my luck.  LOL.  So, with that being said, I am looking at somewhere around 50% efficiency.  So, maybe getting the grains ground a bit finer next time would be a good start?  Or mash a bit longer?  Any suggestions would be happily accepted, but it looks like I am somewhere in the 50% area.

There are a lot of places to look to improve your efficiency. Crush is just one of them.  Equipment, recipe, ingredients and process are also considerations.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline denny

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Re: Next brew day
« Reply #35 on: May 09, 2022, 08:05:01 am »
That's not quite right. You need to use the post-mash (or pre-boil) volume and gravity to figure the mash efficiency, not the amount post-boil. The efficiency into the fermenter is the so-called brewhouse efficiency, but you should be looking at your mash efficiency. 15.5 lbs of grain at 37 points per pound per gallon would have 15.5*37 = 573.5 points per gallon. Divide by 6.5 for the volume and get 88.2 points for 100% efficiency. If you had 45 points pre-boil (SG=1.045) then your mash efficiency was 45/88.2 = 51%.

Except that I directed him to calculate brewhiuse efficiency. I feel like that's the first step to get a handle on overall system efficiency.

And besides, for mash efficiency, you should be using the amount of liquor used, not the amount of wort collected.  So if you had an extra 2 gallons lost to absorption and mash tun dead space, estimate 8.5 gallons of liquor in the mash.  This brings mash efficiency up to 67% which is totally reasonable for no sparge brewing.

I agree with the posts about a finer grain crush, though.  That's been the single biggest efficiency boost for me in batch or no sparge brewing.

OK, so going with what you said, I started with 6.5 gallons in the mash, sparged with 1.33 gallons of sparge water at 170ish.  I had a false bottom on the kettle that was probably about an inch or so above the bottom of the kettle.  This is all really cool stuff and I am getting some great info.  I am going to work with all of this and see where I go from here.  Thank you all for the input, I know these are all very stupid questions, but I am trying to learn.  RR

False bottom is kinda a red flag. It's easy to get channeling which will reduce your efficiency. Another thing to c0nsider along with other factors.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline ScallyWag

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Re: Next brew day
« Reply #36 on: May 09, 2022, 11:36:06 am »
One of the earliest couple of times I did BIAB, I did not stir very well after mashing in, and was surprised/dismayed to find I had way undershot my target OG.  It wasn't until the next day emptying out the Igloo cooler (my mash tun) that I discovered I had big clumps of dry grain inside sizeable doughballs.  Now I stir a couple of times after mash-in, just to be sure.  I discovered that I can open the lid a few times without really losing much heat.

That and getting a mill to achieve a finer grind went a long ways toward sugar extraction, I get pretty close to 85%-90%.  (I also routinely 3-step-mash from 149 to 153 to 158  for most beers.  Not sure how much of a difference that makes realistically, but it might.)

Anyhow, don't be too dismayed.  You'll get it. 

Incidentally, that low OG (and resulting low alcohol) beer actually turned out great.  Here I was all bummed out and debating whether or not to keep brewing, and people LOVED that beer.  Sure, I wasted way too much malt to make it, but it was a pleasant mistake to learn from.

Offline redrocker652002

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Re: Next brew day
« Reply #37 on: May 09, 2022, 08:49:24 pm »
Thanks guys, I kinda knew my numbers would be off, that is just my luck.  LOL.  So, with that being said, I am looking at somewhere around 50% efficiency.  So, maybe getting the grains ground a bit finer next time would be a good start?  Or mash a bit longer?  Any suggestions would be happily accepted, but it looks like I am somewhere in the 50% area.

There are a lot of places to look to improve your efficiency. Crush is just one of them.  Equipment, recipe, ingredients and process are also considerations.

I agree with you, and those will all be looked at.  Crush is just my first place to look as it is the easiest to fix.  At least in my mind it is.  LOL.

Offline redrocker652002

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Re: Next brew day
« Reply #38 on: May 09, 2022, 08:50:43 pm »
That's not quite right. You need to use the post-mash (or pre-boil) volume and gravity to figure the mash efficiency, not the amount post-boil. The efficiency into the fermenter is the so-called brewhouse efficiency, but you should be looking at your mash efficiency. 15.5 lbs of grain at 37 points per pound per gallon would have 15.5*37 = 573.5 points per gallon. Divide by 6.5 for the volume and get 88.2 points for 100% efficiency. If you had 45 points pre-boil (SG=1.045) then your mash efficiency was 45/88.2 = 51%.

Except that I directed him to calculate brewhiuse efficiency. I feel like that's the first step to get a handle on overall system efficiency.

And besides, for mash efficiency, you should be using the amount of liquor used, not the amount of wort collected.  So if you had an extra 2 gallons lost to absorption and mash tun dead space, estimate 8.5 gallons of liquor in the mash.  This brings mash efficiency up to 67% which is totally reasonable for no sparge brewing.

I agree with the posts about a finer grain crush, though.  That's been the single biggest efficiency boost for me in batch or no sparge brewing.

OK, so going with what you said, I started with 6.5 gallons in the mash, sparged with 1.33 gallons of sparge water at 170ish.  I had a false bottom on the kettle that was probably about an inch or so above the bottom of the kettle.  This is all really cool stuff and I am getting some great info.  I am going to work with all of this and see where I go from here.  Thank you all for the input, I know these are all very stupid questions, but I am trying to learn.  RR

False bottom is kinda a red flag. It's easy to get channeling which will reduce your efficiency. Another thing to c0nsider along with other factors.

That's good to know.  I will remove it next time and see if it makes a difference.  Thank you

Offline redrocker652002

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Re: Next brew day
« Reply #39 on: May 09, 2022, 08:53:55 pm »
One of the earliest couple of times I did BIAB, I did not stir very well after mashing in, and was surprised/dismayed to find I had way undershot my target OG.  It wasn't until the next day emptying out the Igloo cooler (my mash tun) that I discovered I had big clumps of dry grain inside sizeable doughballs.  Now I stir a couple of times after mash-in, just to be sure.  I discovered that I can open the lid a few times without really losing much heat.

That and getting a mill to achieve a finer grind went a long ways toward sugar extraction, I get pretty close to 85%-90%.  (I also routinely 3-step-mash from 149 to 153 to 158  for most beers.  Not sure how much of a difference that makes realistically, but it might.)

Anyhow, don't be too dismayed.  You'll get it. 

Incidentally, that low OG (and resulting low alcohol) beer actually turned out great.  Here I was all bummed out and debating whether or not to keep brewing, and people LOVED that beer.  Sure, I wasted way too much malt to make it, but it was a pleasant mistake to learn from.

Thank you for the input.  I think my stirring went ok, seemed to be mixed pretty well, but who knows.  I will keep an eye on that.  The mill might be  on the wish list soon.  I need to do a bit more research on it and see what happens.  I am going to try and add to my next grain order a note to ask that they mill the grain a bit finer for me and see if that works for now. 

My hope is that your experience and mine will be the same and the beer will be good none the less.  It might not have hit the target, but if it tastes good and is drinkable then who cares, right?  LOL 


Offline redrocker652002

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Re: Next brew day
« Reply #40 on: May 09, 2022, 09:04:09 pm »
So, as an update I just wanted to add a few things.  I did my brew Friday, finished Friday afternoon.  By later Friday night the fermentation started, and man was it going.  The lid on my bucket fermenter bulged and the bubbler was damn near a steady stream of air coming out.  So much so, I saw a small amount of hop particles in the airlock.  First time I had seen that.  Saturday was the same, bubbling like crazy.  Sunday I noticed a bit of a slowdown but still a pretty active bubbling.  I checked it today and it slowed even more to maybe a bubble or two every two to three seconds.  I am going to check the gravity in the next day or two.  My plan is to dry hop maybe Wednesday or Thursday.  Let the hops sit for a few days and keg either late Saturday night or Sunday sometime.  That gives the hop pellets three to four days in the fermenter.  As I have read, more than that is somewhat overkill.  I have an ounce of Citra and an ounce of Amarillo to add, so we shall see.  This one has been a good learning experience and I have tried to take good notes along the way.  For the next one, I am going to rig up or buy a hop spider for the kettle.  Even with just pellets there was a lot of trub in the kettle that got caught up in the screen that I had to deal with.  That and the other things as already discussed have really been eye opening.  It is going to be a fun ride, and I thank you all for the help you have provided me along the way.  Keep it coming, I am trying to remember all of it.  LOL. 

Offline redrocker652002

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Re: Next brew day
« Reply #41 on: May 10, 2022, 09:53:17 pm »
Bubbling hs slowed to about 1 every 5 to 6 seconds.  So, i think my hop schedule will be ok.  I might put the dry hops in a bag, sanitized of course, and maybe weigh it down with some marbles and stick it in the bucket that way.  By Sunday, I am pretty sure they will have done their thing.  In the keg Sunday, in the kegerator with CO2 to carbonate.  I am thinking 20 to 30 PSI for a few days and then back it down to 12 o 15 which is my normal serving pressure.  Kegerator at about 38 to 41 is where I remember it being.  Maybe in a week or so it will be ready to taste.  Sound like a good plan?  Any input is welcomed.  RR

Offline redrocker652002

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Re: Next brew day
« Reply #42 on: May 11, 2022, 08:29:10 pm »
Gravity is down to 1.010 with very little activity, so I went ahead and put the hops in.  This time, I sanitized a mesh bag and marbles and put the hops and the marbles in the bag.  I clipped the bag to the side of the bucket so I can remove it when kegging.  So far, my numbers are:  1.052 into the fermenter and 1.010 as it sits now.  That gives me about an ABV of about 5.5%.  I tasted the liquid I put in the hydrometer and it didn't taste too bad.  Hoping the dry hops, carb and cool will make it drinkable.  Thanks to all who read and input.  RR